Māṇḍūkya Upaniṣad

02/26/2026 · Tue/Thu 10:30-11:45 AM · Brad Bannon · Boston College

📄 Synopsis

In this session, the class explored the Advaita Vedānta perspective on the Self (Atman) and its relationship to Brahman through the lens of epistemology and the text's analysis of the syllable 'Om.' The discussion centered on the concept of 'progressive dissolution,' a method of stripping away mental projections, categories, and labels to perceive the underlying non-dual reality. Students engaged with the metaphor of the 'clay' to distinguish between transient names and forms (nāma-rūpa) and the permanent essence that remains unchanged despite external shaping. A significant portion of the dialogue focused on the four stages of consciousness—waking, dreaming, deep sleep, and the 'fourth' (Turiya)—and how these states relate to the negation of earthly biases and the eventual realization of the Self. The instructor emphasized the necessity of a caring teacher to mirror the truth back to the student, illustrating that the theological quest is often a relational rather than a purely solitary journey. Finally, the class reflected on the malleability of the human form and the 'death' of specific identities required to transition between states of being.

⚡ Key Takeaways

The Self is considered dearer than wealth or family because it is ultimately identical to Brahman, the ground of all existence.
Progressive dissolution involves removing mental obstructions and categories to perceive the pure consciousness of Atman in others.
The waking state is characterized by cognizing personal projections and labels rather than seeing the world as it truly is.
The syllable 'Om' is divided into four parts—the U, the N, and the silence that follows—representing different levels of reality and consciousness.
Deep sleep serves as a phenomenological model for the negation of all relations and is often compared to the state of death.
A teacher who truly cares is essential in the Advaita tradition to help the student recognize their true nature as the 'tenth person.'
The 'clay' metaphor illustrates that while forms are transient and subject to 'birth and death,' the underlying material remains the same.
Non-duality (Advaita) is distinct from simple monism; it involves a complex relationship where the 'other' is eventually recognized as not separate from the Self.
To exist is to be in relationship, yet the highest state of consciousness involves the negation of dualistic relations.
The theological method used in class mirrors the phenomenological method by anchoring abstract concepts in concrete texts and shared discourse.

🎤 Transcript Tap any timestamp to jump the audio player

Opening Meditation and Breathing Exercise

Student

Ready?

Brad

Howdy.

Student

Let's take a moment and put everything aside and just transition, try to be Let's take a breath together. Go ahead and breathe in and out.

Student

Word?

Brad

Word.

Student

All right.

Student

They're still coming around, right?

2:26

In-Class Quiz Administration

Brad

Yeah.

Student

All right, yeah, go ahead and flip them over and get started.

Brad

If anybody is unclear about their number, please ask. Just try to keep your eyes on your own paper, please.

Student

Good.

Student

Great.

Student

Uh, go ahead and pass them up, please. Thank you.

8:02

Administrative Check-in and Scheduling

Brad

Oh yeah, yeah, are we good? Um, What are we doing today?

Student

Yeah, play tag.

Brad

Oh, I meant to ask you to do something on the back of it, but that's alright. Alright, why don't we do like normal and take a few minutes on your teams? But just a few minutes because we're gonna stop early today.

Student

What time are we stopping?

Brad

This class goes until 10:45. Um, I don't know, by like 5 after or something. Is that only— it's only half an hour from now. Yeah, so we'll go for about half an hour and then we'll stop, um, so you have time to do your podcast, um, today. So as far as doing the podcast, you know, probably, uh, 1 or 2 Maybe 3 groups could do it in this room, you know, kind of like in different corners. But there should be other places, plenty of other places around, hopefully in walking distance for you to do. I could open up my office if anybody wants that space. Yeah. So, yeah, let's take a few minutes in teams, and then, yeah, then we'll hear from our team leaders. Yeah, and kind of like move the tables, you know the drill. Just in case something crazy— ⚠

Student

Yeah, right.

Brad

Yeah, we're definitely violating some, uh, fire codes.

Student

Thankfully we have windows all around us.

Student

Everyone went out and was like, that was the worst test.

14:13

Student-Led Discussion: Self, Material Attachment, and the Bhagavad-Gītā

Brad

Alrighty. I believe if my records are correct, we've got Georgia, Tim, Allie, Caroline, Lily, Brent, and Luke. All right. Rock on. Who wants to get us started? Yeah, Brent. ⚠

Student

So in the beginning of this chapter, in 13.0, one of the quotes was actually a quote from chapter 12, but it was, the self is dearer than a son, dearer than wealth, dearer than anything else. And I noticed that because if the self is Brahman and everything is Brahman, then wouldn't isolating yourself and leaving everything behind only to be with your one being almost be unhealthy? Bad for the self, bad for Brahman, because you're moving away from the rest of the things that are Brahman. And I was just like, I don't know, it caught my attention. I thought it was interesting to think about, and where like that might be some guidance from you because you have a little more knowledge in this. But like, just what everyone else talked about. ⚠

Brad

Okay. I mean, moving away from Moving away from what exactly?

Student

So like the forest stage where you give up all possession. Yeah, I understand, like, they're relinquishing all of your material possessions, but isn't also giving up like a son or a wife, like things like that, isn't that almost unhealthy for your own well-being but also for their well-being? Like, it's, it seems like detaching yourself from brahman in some ways is against what human nature would indicate, or what like some of these texts would indicate. ⚠

Brad

Okay, I mean, you can't really move away from yourself though, can you?

Student

That's kind of what I'm saying.

Brad

Yeah, I think you can move away from yourself. So when you're like relinquishing material attachments, it's not so much that the material goes away, it's just that you're relinquishing your attachment to it. So it's a different relationship with the material rather than like doing something to the material. It's more of like a— yeah, like an emotional or something like that, like attachment to it. So you're not— does that kind of make sense? I'm not— yeah, I feel like I'm not answering your question very well. ⚠

Student

I feel like it's not necessarily a question with an answer.

Brad

OK. More just like— OK. Word. Yeah, Lily? ⚠

Student

I kind of want to bring up the idea that was brought up in the text called progressive dissolution, which is like taking away the things that obstruct and like mediating anything to be pure brahman or atman, like seeing someone for just consciousness— not consciousness, but atman. And like how that kind of takes away from individuality if you're looking at everyone just as the same. Like part of that, like how does that relate to like if you're looking at everything through progressive dissolution, like is that taking away from people being individuals? ⚠

Brad

Yeah, so what are we dissolving there, right? So are we dissolving what makes Lily Lily? Or something else, right? So it could be that we start with what makes Lily Lily and then kind of dissolve the differences between Lily and not Lily, you know? But so then I think it's a very open question whether or not that does sort of damage to, you know, what does it mean to be individual? What does it mean to be Lily, right? Yeah, good, good. Yeah, Tim. ⚠

18:09

Theological Epistemology: Waking Stages, Silence, and the Syllable Om

Student

I think I noticed like a heavy theme of like epistemology in this chapter.

Brad

Sure.

Student

Of like, especially with the waking stage, it starts, it says you're not seeing the world as it is. You're cognizing your projections, categories, and labels in the world, which reminded me of that topic. And then I guess that because of that, I kind of view the stages of Om as like removing yourself from those biases, or like deep dreaming is a little less of that, and then deep sleep is like you're completely gone from your earthly biases, and then the fourth stage being like even more separated from that. ⚠

Brad

Good. So a couple of things to unpack there. One is like, what is the relationship between deep sleep and, you know, how does it differ from those other ones? And also, how does it differ from death? And then another one is like when, like you said, categories, right? So then we're dissolving categories. So like I could point at Tim and there's, I mean, there's a category of people named Tim, right? You're not the only Tim in the world. So we could have all the people named Tim, right? Or we could have all of the students at Boston College, which you're also in that group. ⚠

Student

Right?

Brad

Or all the people wearing a green sweatshirt, you know, right? And then so any of those people, any of those categories point to you, right? And you're in those categories. But then it could be that the progressive dissolution that Lily was pointing to is not dissolving anything unique about Tim, but actually dissolving all of those categories. And saying, actually, these constructed categories are constructed categories. And then so sort of progressively dissolving those categories. Good. Yeah, good. Yeah. Caroline? ⚠

Student

Following off what was said about Om, I think the whole idea of that was very interesting to me and kind of like how it was split into 4 parts, which is like this. The U, and the N, and then the silence after that. And kind of like the idea of that it was there before you opened your mouth, and then it was also there after you made the sound. And it kind of reminded me a lot of the clay example we talked about, where the clay could be made into many different things, but it's always the same thing. It always has kind of like the same essence, and it's in a way almost ever-present. And so you Even if you're not saying, the silence when you're not saying it is still a part of it. And I kind of like that whole idea of it's just always there. ⚠

Brad

We can't have words without the silence in between them, right? And so, yeah, I mean, it's an important— yeah, good. Thank you, Caroline. Others? And I think you're right to think about the clay and the Play-Doh. There's a reason that I— Bring it every day. It's probably some highly significant aspects that no one has brought up yet in class. Everybody's like, wait, what is that? Save that for the midterm. Other thoughts? ⚠

Student

Which they haven't heard from yet.

21:47

Relational Theology: The Role of the Teacher and the Other

Brad

Tim?

Student

I just thought it was interesting about how there was a big emphasis on how you need someone to see you first before you're able to see yourself, which I guess I haven't heard that in other religions, I guess, where it could be a personal journey with you and God, but it seems like maybe you need someone else in your life to be that person for you. ⚠

Brad

Yeah, this is a really important observation, right? So when we had like the parable of the 10th person with the Ramayana, so there you have 10 people, so it's not, you know, it's not just one person, it is 10 people. But even in that situation, they needed another person, right? They needed this outsider, this carpenter who comes up and says, like, you are the 10th, right? And so here we have this, at least per Shankara's reading, right, the important role of a teacher in that. And you need a teacher to embody that role and to point to the student in that sort of way. So yeah, really important. Yeah. ⚠

Student

Between a husband and wife, a husband's neighbor, a father and son, a teacher and a student. Like, all the stories relate between two people. So I think it's interesting that it's not a singular faith journey. It kind of also relates back to everyone is part of Brahman. You can't be on your own journey because you're part of something bigger. ⚠

Brad

Great. Excellent. Yep.

Student

Even with that, especially for this chapter, one thing I noted was the truth must be spoken by someone who truly cares. Like the teacher, it can't just be like something they copy off of another teacher. You have to truly care that each of those stories— she said like a husband, wife, father or something— it's someone who truly cares. I think that's even more interesting where it says like, you know, the truth, it must be heard, it must be spoken. It even has to be by someone who, like as you said, truly embodies those characteristics of care. ⚠

Brad

Yes, and an important addition to that is it's not just enough that the person cares about the student, but the student has to recognize that the teacher cares about them. The student has to trust that they care about them, right? Which is, I think, easier in like father-son sort of dynamic or in the husband-wife sort of dynamic, right? And so you've got these people who already care about one another. So the father, like Uddalaka, when he's talking to Śvetaketu, He cares about the kid, right? I mean, he's got a lot at stake there. ⚠

Student

Georgia, Adrienne?

Student

I had a question for you. I'm a little confused about going back to the idea of silence between deep sleep and silence, because I feel like thinking about it as humans, when we're on a very physical level, when we're sleeping deeply, I feel like that just makes me think of silence versus like, I guess abstractly silence is like, would that be like before and after our existence basically? ⚠

Brad

Yeah, so a couple of weeks ago, last week I guess, I was saying that we really need to think about birth and death in different ways, right? And really sort of think as broadly as we can. Not in terms of birth and death as like, you know, in this sort of conventional, you know, procreation, you know, sex and all that kind of way, but instead more epistemically, right? So like the beginning of a concept is a conception. We even use the same word, right? Conceiving of an idea, conceiving a child. So I mean, even in English, those sort of ideas are retained there. So then what if we were to think about, you know, deep sleep as phenomenologically indistinguishable from death, right? So then if— yeah, what if we start there, right? ⚠

Brad

So then thinking about emerging from the state of deep sleep, which could be to the dream state or it could be, you know, your roommate wakes you up, but Right, so that emergence from that state of deep sleep into non-sleep as a kind of a birth, as a beginning of something, you know, I guess coming back again to epistemology, right, everything I think in Advaita comes down to epistemology, at least everything in the path of knowledge, right, the jnana marga, it's about knowledge, so it's epistemology is going to be key. Good. Really good. ⚠

Student

Yeah.

Student

I'm kind of going back to the relationships thing. I get a little confused because I feel like it says that like the self is true and you're kind of supposed to renounce like everything. But then it also goes back to say how important the different relationships are and then connecting like the relationships that we've read about. It goes back to where we said or who we said we had to pay debts to in life. So just kind of what do the relationships like do to the self, and are you supposed to keep them always, or to like achieve like atman, and do you have to get rid of them eventually? ⚠

Brad

Have to get rid of like the relationships with others? So, yeah, good question. I mean, I think if we think about it going back to What I said a moment ago, thinking about deep sleep as a, you know, in some ways difficult to distinguish from death. What's the difference between deep sleep and death? What's the obvious distinction? Yeah? You're breathing. Yeah, so you're breathing and you wake up, right? I mean, hopefully, right? At least you have the possibility of waking up as long as you're still breathing. So from the outside you can see this body that's breathing, right? And that's how you know, hey, is Brad dead or whatever? Like, I don't know, Brad's breathing, therefore not dead yet, right? So then when I'm in a state of deep sleep, I have no relation to anything. I don't even have a relationship to my own body, right? I'm not aware of things that are going on. I'm not aware of my own existence, right? But then as soon as I become aware of my own existence, because I begin dreaming or I wake up, then I'm in relationship, right? ⚠

Brad

So to be is to be in relationship. To exist is to stand out from an other, right? So then we're back to the idea of duality and non-duality. Right? So we could think about one of the points I think I've mentioned or tried to emphasize a few times over the past couple weeks is that non-duality is not the same as monism or oneness, right? And we could then see a certain kind of oneness in death, a certain kind of oneness in deep sleep. Right? There is no second to perceive. There is no dream to dream. There is no other to be in relationship with. There is no other to say, "You are the tenth." Right? So there is no relationship. So then, yeah, we're starting to get there a little bit. Questions? Yeah. ⚠

Student

Something that's kind of curious to me is that if deep sleep is like the negation of any relation, like your relationships to anything, like you're kind of just— I mean, they describe it as like a lump of consciousness, but it's almost like, I don't know, you're not really conscious because you're negating your relationship to anything, even like your own perception of yourself or like your your atman. So then if that— if deep sleep is like this level of negation, then like the fourth is negation of that, of like that lack of relationship? I'm just like kind of curious about the nature of the fourth. ⚠

Brad

Well, sure. I mean, that is everything, isn't it? Yeah. And I think the way to get to that answer is not exactly by thinking about the fourth, ironically. So I think understanding the— I mean, I think a lot of work can be done by thinking about the clay example. So one of the things we saw in the last reading for Tuesday. So we've seen it a few times now, but the idea of name and form, right? So name and form are not real, not permanent, right? Name and form are, you know, transient, right? So what if we were to think about Let's just pretend for the sake of argument or simplicity that this is clay, not Play-Doh. ⚠

31:20

Metaphysics of Form: The Clay and Potter Analogy

Student

Right? If—

Brad

so clay, what is the form? So clay is a name, right? What is the form of clay? What does it look like? What's the form? Yeah?

Student

I guess it doesn't have a form. ⚠

Brad

So it doesn't have a fixed form. That's right. Yeah, so, so clay in and of itself doesn't have a form. It could have any form. I mean, any form you can shape it into. But clay as clay, clay qua clay, has no form, right? I mean, so you could— I mean, generically we just kind of use the word lump, right? Lump is just kind of like a non-form, right? Is this a lump? I think that's a lump, right? But I could totally transform it, right? And then also a lump, right? So lump is kind of like a form without form. Could it have— would it be fair to say then that clay has no form? Why are you shaking your head? ⚠

Student

It's still like a form. It's not like it's formless. It's just there's no fixed form.

Brad

There's no fixed form, but in order to exist, it has to have some form, right? It can't have no form. To exist means to have some form, right? So then, so lump, as much as we— I mean, we can call it— I mean, it's kind of a formless form, right? So it's a non-form, right? An absence of form. Form that's not a total absence of form, because you can't— it has to exist. For it to exist, it has to exist in some form or another, right? Um, you see the difference there? It's a significant difference, right? So it's not that clay has no form, it has no fixed form, right? So the sat and the tyam from that middle reading from Tuesday. Um, what does that have to do with, I don't know, anything from Yeah. ⚠

Student

I mean, I think like in the same way that like you could take the clay and make something with it, like it's malleable, you take the clay and you change its form. Like the same is true of all of us. Like we don't have a fixed form. We have our bodies, but we're constantly like changing and being shaped by the things around us in the same way that the clay is being shaped by like my hand right now. Yeah, I mean, I guess like it's kind of getting at the fact that it takes like external influences almost to change things, like everything is kind of formless and that it can always change. ⚠

Brad

I think you're on the right track. The only thing I would maybe encourage you to think a little bit more about is the external part. Does it have to be external, right? So like Luke has a form, right? And the form that Luke has right now is very different than, I think, than when you were, you know, 5 days old or something, right? Probably significantly different. And, you know, if you were to go to the gym and get, you know, like jacked like me, then that would also be a way that you could internally change your form, right? So it's not an external change of form, but there's— so you have some ability to shape yourself, right? So unlike the clay, which requires a potter in order to shape the clay into this or that thing, right? You've got these different causality, right? The material cause, but then there's the efficient cause, which in this case is me, the potter. But then there's also the final cause, like what am I going to shape, right? What's the reason? ⚠

Brad

I don't think it's too much of a stretch to say then, could we also think about Luke as a kind of potter, right? And your body— not just your body, but your mind and everything about you, right? Everything that makes Luke Luke is also, you know, kind of like the clay. It can't exist in no form, as Katie was saying, but the the form is not fixed, so you have some flexibility of how to shape it, how to shape yourself into this or that. And then so the question would be, are you shaping yourself into this or that form for some reason, some final cause, right? And then might that final cause be something that only relates to your individual self, right? I'm going to do this because it makes me a lot of money or something like that, right? Or might the motivation be something more shreya than preya, right? We are down to our final couple of minutes here. Any last thoughts or questions? Yeah, Anna? ⚠

Student

The clay example kind of makes me think like at the end of the day everyone like puts puts the clay back into its container and like that gives it like a more sturdy form. But like almost like the opening and closing of it like each day with like each person like is like the death and rebirth of the clay. And you like when you take it out of its like material form, you're able to like form it into whatever you want. So that makes you think like our souls in our body and then when it's like out of our body, like that's when it's malleable. ⚠

Brad

Yeah, I mean, I could even take, you know, this clay and divide it into two, right? Or divide it into more than two. But I didn't make more clay. There's just— I've changed, right, its relationship to itself. And yeah, and as you're saying, like, to shape it from one form to another form, it's gonna be a death of that form, right? I don't know if anybody created some cool shit. It looks like Iona's made— what is that, a snowman? Okay, so like, that's a beautiful snowman, right? You've given this form, you've given birth to this form, right? Um, you know, in a certain kind of way. Um, but in a minute it's going to be time to pack everything up, right? And then that'll be the, the death of this poor little snowman there, right? So sort of birth and a death of this form in a constant state of transformation, but it's still clay or Play-Doh. And if we had time, I know Veer brought this up at the beginning when I handed out— they said some of the Play-Doh was a little bit less malleable than, uh, than, you know. ⚠

Brad

So, um, yeah, I think we have, um, you know, like a okay boomer kind of thing, right? Like, um, as, uh, individuals grow older, sometimes they become less malleable, right? Less neuroplasticity, less flexibility, all that sort of thing. We are out of time because I want to make sure that you have plenty of time for your podcasts. Let me give you a couple instructions for the podcast and then we'll break up. And then, so the Tuesday after we get back and enjoy your holiday. But we'll have the midterm exam. And if anybody wants to take the midterm exam in the testing center or anything like that, that's totally fine. For this podcast, obviously, as you know, or just to make it perfectly clear, you should leave the discussion on a different one that you led on for your discussion leader section. But even more than that, I would really, instead of just going like chapter, chapter, chapter, chapter, like normal, I would really like you to try and practice upasamhara and samanvaya. Try to see all, try to hear all four of the mahavakyas together, right? ⚠

Brad

Try to see, you know, the sort of overlapping Venn diagram, that kind of stuff. Use your readings of— use your readings of all of the texts that we've read so far this semester and bring them to bear on, you know, whatever particular passage you're looking at for the podcast. Right? Cool. And I don't know, you could also tell me what you're doing for spring break or do something fun like that in the podcast. Anyway, go! All right, so you got 30— ⚠

40:00

Midterm Exam Format and Preparation

Student

yeah, Stan? I have a question about the format of the midterm. Yeah. What type of multiple choice, short answer? ⚠

Brad

It'll have some multiple choice, some matching, some short answer, and maybe a couple short little essays. Kind of like, you know, I mean, short essays.

Student

Yep.

Brad

Good.