Akedah, Passover, Suffering Servant

02/12/2026 · Tue/Thu 12:00-1:15 PM · Brad Bannon · Boston College

📄 Synopsis

This session focused on the theological themes of sacrifice and substitution within the Hebrew Bible, specifically examining the 'Binding of Isaac' (Aqedah) in Genesis 22 and the Passover. The class engaged in a comparative analysis between the biblical account of Abraham’s obedience and the Hindu narrative of Śunaḥśepa from the Aitareya Brāhmaṇa, questioning the nature of 'blind faith' versus 'reasoned faith.' Students explored the ethical implications of Abraham's silence compared to his earlier defense of Sodom and Gomorrah, as well as the geopolitical significance of Mount Moriah for Jewish and Islamic traditions. The discussion transitioned to the Passover, highlighting the use of animal substitution and the dual nature of the text as both a historical narrative and a set of liturgical instructions for communal memory.

⚡ Key Takeaways

The 'Binding of Isaac,' known in Hebrew as the Aqedah, serves as a primary text for exploring the tension between divine command and human moral reasoning.
A significant contrast exists between Abraham’s immediate obedience regarding Isaac and his bold negotiation with God over the fate of innocent people in Sodom and Gomorrah.
The story of Śunaḥśepa provides a Hindu parallel to the biblical theme of a son being offered for sacrifice, though the motivations and outcomes differ regarding the father's role.
The Passover narrative functions as both a historical account and a set of liturgical instructions, with the text providing the story and the method of commemoration simultaneously.
Substitution is a recurring motif in these texts, seen in the ram replacing Isaac and the lamb replacing the firstborn in the Passover context.
The class established 'religion,' 'Hinduism,' and 'Christianity' as taboo abstract nouns to encourage more precise descriptions of traditions and practices using adjectives and adverbs.
The geopolitical significance of the Dome of the Rock highlights the shared and contested heritage of Abraham’s descendants through Isaac and Ishmael.
The professor emphasized anchoring theological discourse in the sacred text itself rather than secondary commentary or scripts during student podcasts.

🎤 Transcript Tap any timestamp to jump the audio player

Opening Silence and Meditation

Brad

Alrighty, let's take a moment please and put away screens and devices and take a moment just to be still and quiet. Let's take a breath together. Go ahead and breathe in and out. Word?

1:11

Administrative Notes and Office Hour Changes

Student

Word.

Brad

As you can probably already tell, uh, on a scale of 1 to 10, I feel like shit. So I'm going to cancel office hours today. That said, if you wanted to make up a quiz from the past, I can do that right after class. So you can still make up a quiz, but I just don't want to meet with anybody or anything like that. So, yeah, but I'll still have office hours tomorrow, right? Online office hours tomorrow. Yeah, it's just a head call. There's nothing serious. So no office hours today. Podcast 2, do, you know, before Tuesday. And nice job on Podcast 1. I've still got, I think, 2 to listen to. So I will listen to those. But all the ones, all the ones that I've listened to have been good. A couple of things. One, just want to really clarify that— a couple of things. I really don't think that you should use a script. I think using a script is not good. Don't use a script. That said, you know, if Eduardo is like leading a section, you know, I mean, everybody should take a section to lead. ⚠

2:32

Guidelines for Leading Text-Anchored Discussions

Brad

If you want to prepare something to read for your discussion discussion leader part, that's fine. Right? But that's different than having a script. Script, especially if like, you know, Angel says something and then I read my response off of a script to what Angel just said, that's weird. Right? That doesn't seem— so don't use a script, please. But feel free to write something out for your discussion leader portion. Also, if you do meet remotely, You need to have your camera on. I need to be able to see you, and you need to be able to see each other. So meeting remotely is fine, just please have your camera on. Also, especially if you're meeting remotely and you don't have your camera on, I have no idea who's talking, right? So that's another thing. So be sure you're using each other's names. I think other than that, yeah, really, really solid work, especially for the first one. It's always like a learning curve. They'll get better as they go along. Especially now from Unit 2 forward, right? This is a sacred texts class. And the emphasis should be on the text. ⚠

Brad

So always keep the text— let the text anchor your discourse, right? So I think when it's your turn to lead the discussion, I think the best thing to do in almost every case would be to actually read a portion of the scripture. Right, so, you know, if you're gonna talk about Śunaḥśepa, then like read, you know, not, you don't have to read like the whole thing, but just read like a few sentences or, you know, a verse or two or three or something like that and just say, you know, I'm gonna read from Aitareya Brāhmaṇa, you know, section 23 or whatever, and then just read that and then say whichever you want to say. But I think, and Ideally, you know, it takes practice and work to get there. But ideally, then other people should respond, you know, also by pointing to the text. Maybe like, "Hey, that's a really good point, Max, but, you know, did you read this part over here?" Or, "How do we make sense of that thing that's— that passage that you just read and this other passage that, you know, we didn't read?" That kind of stuff. ⚠

Brad

So really anchoring your discourse in the text. So I would— I think it would be important to have the text in front of you. Now, when I say have the text in front of you and anchor it in the text, you know, like, as you're reading what I've given you, the reader, some of it is stuff that I've written and some of it is stuff that's a sacred text, right? I mean, anchor it in the sacred text, not the stuff that I've been writing. I mean, you can obviously talk about what I've been— what I wrote, you know, but use that. You can feel free to disagree with my part, but anchor your discourse in the text. You know what I mean? Like the sacred text. Wait, I had some other things. This is— I know I've said this before, and people are always like, I don't totally know what that means, but this is not— a religion class. I teach a religion class. This is not it. This is a theology class. So I think one of the things— let's introduce some taboo words, right? ⚠

Brad

Taboo words meaning, you know, words that you shouldn't say. Well, we'll just start with these. You know, I don't know, you like have to put a dollar in the jar or something if you say it. It's not— there's no real consequence from them, but I want you to try to avoid using these words entirely, but especially in your podcast, you know, but in here too. So I don't— I can't really imagine much of a situation where you'd need to use the word religion in here. Definitely not Hinduism. Don't do that, please. We're not talking about Hinduism. That's a made-up category. It does not exist anywhere. It's an abstract noun. Christianity, likewise, it's a made-up category. So let's avoid using those. So for now, we'll just have these as our 3 taboo words. Yeah, so religion, Hinduism, and Christianity. These are not taboo words, so religious is fine, religiously is fine, Hindu is fine, Christian is fine. What's the difference between these? These two columns other than one's taboo and one's not? Grammatically? Yeah. [Speaker] Nouns versus adjectives. [Speaker] These are nouns and these are abstract nouns in particular. And they name things that don't exist. ⚠

Brad

Whereas adjectives and adverbs is totally fine, right? A religious text, right? That's something you can have in front of you. You can read it religiously. That's something that indicates, right, an ongoing sort of practice or attitude towards the text. So the adjectives and adverbs are totally fine. Hindu texts, Hindu traditions, Hindu, right? But use it as an adjective or an adverb, not as a noun. Unless you're talking about a person, you say a Hindu person or a Christian person, but that's actually still just an adjective. Good. I'd like you to begin Podcast 2. So in Podcast 1, I asked you all to begin with the joke. So folks begin with the riddle. That's fine too. Yeah, I mean, I like you to have fun. And I think it should be fun, right? As long as you're following the instructions, have fun. Fun is encouraged. I'd like you to begin this one instead of a joke. I mean, jokes are always welcome. In place of that, I'd like you to start by talking about a game. ⚠

Brad

You know, a game that you— I mean, I think in most cases what I'm really kind of looking for is like a game you played with your parents, a game you played with your family growing up or something, or a game you played with your friends either in the past or now. But just talk about a game. It doesn't have to be anything deep. Don't overthink it. OK? There's no right or wrong answer here. Just like a game. We're going to be talking a little bit more about games, you know, beginning with the next unit and particularly the second half of the course. So this is more preparatory kind of thinking ahead towards those things. But I just want you to think about a game that you've played with your family or something that's— or friends or something like that. Good? Other than that, basic thing is for podcast 2, so start by just— Talking about a little game. Some of you had intros and outros, which are awesome. I love that. Some of you had like graphics, and that's great too. ⚠

Brad

Don't feel any pressure to do that, but that's— but I noticed it and appreciate it. Basically, you should, you know, each person should choose a text. Choose a text that's different than the one that you did on your leadership day. And, and that's it. Yeah, any questions about the podcast? Cool, right on. Then, then let's, let's dive in. So I think we'll start with a little bit of small, you know, a little time in your team so that the team leaders can get you know, kind of practice what they want to say. My notes say Angel, Tana, Francis, Jake, Delaney, and Mickey. Yeah. And, oh, one other thing. If— I think this only applies to Group 11, but if there's only 3 people in your group, you don't have to feel it. You don't have to do it. You only have to lead once per unit, you know? So— That's it. Yeah. I'm also— You're also a leader. OK, cool, cool. Yeah, sorry, I left you out there. Yeah, go for it. I have you down here. I don't know why I didn't say it. Yeah, thanks, Max. So take, yeah, 5 minutes or so. ⚠

11:27

Quiz Announcement and Transition to Hebrew Scriptures

Brad

Yo, I forgot the quiz. I forgot the quiz. We'll do it in a minute.

Student

So I guess they are, although they are bacterial, but I think they're super strong. ⚠

Brad

You know, we'll kind of find the scapegoat and then even if they didn't do anything wrong, we just decide then to blame all your problems on them. ⚠

Student

And then as that, you get to feel better about yourself. You don't have to take responsibility, right?

Brad

Good. So I realized that I forgot to give you the quiz. What should we do about that? Silence falls like a breath. I don't know. Here's some thought to that. Yeah. Yeah. I don't know. See, I spent so much time on it. Yeah, who wants to get us started? Angel. ⚠

18:29

Theological Analysis of the Binding of Isaac (Aqedah)

Student

I think like, you know, Abraham's like test to see whether he's like God-fearing is really symbolic because it's like we were talking about debts in the past few classes, and I think this is one of like, it's like a concrete example of like what we owe to God. It's like you have to be God-fearing in order to like be faithful or be in grace. ⚠

Brad

Yeah, good. So something about faithfulness, and it's clearly a test, right? I mean, it's It says it's a test. Yeah, Delaney? ⚠

Student

We were also kind of talking about what we owe to God in terms of sacrifice. And we kind of noticed a pattern with the sacrifices on how they should be pure or perfect. It mentioned very frequently the lamb has to be without blemish. And also with what we were reading on Tuesday with Naciketas. Naciketas? Yeah, he was this idea of a perfect sacrifice. And then also— Like with Isaac and his silence, he was also like this ideal sacrifice. ⚠

Brad

Okay. Yeah, Mickey.

Student

We talked about like the differences between the two sons being sacrificed, like how, like you mentioned how Isaac was silent, just kind of went along with the whole thing versus Rohita, like going through as many means as possible not to be sacrificed to find someone else to substitute. ⚠

Brad

Okay, good. Yeah, we also compared a little bit, and the main difference was the willingness and obeying of the father in this story. ⚠

Student

And then we also found that the offspring were blessed after, whereas in the other one, they weren't.

Brad

Okay, right. Yeah.

Student

I was wondering if Abraham actually received the promise because of something he did, or is it purely by grace?

Brad

Say a little bit more. Maybe. Yeah. What do you mean received? The promise? ⚠

Student

Yeah, is it because of something that he did, or is it just purely by grace?

Brad

Okay, yeah, okay, good. Yeah, Tana?

Student

I was just thinking that it was really interesting that Isaac is seen as an embodiment of the divine promise and future of the covenant, and that kind of contrasts from the archetype that we saw in the Torah. Story of Śunaḥśepa where the king is like, represents humans driven by desire, or like Śunaḥśepa represents the human condition. Um, but like Isaac is representing something more like hopeful and something more, um, representative of God's nature, while the other ones are more of demons, loss, and human nature. So I feel like it kind of shows that there's a shift from like a God within us to Okay, we do have a much more personified God here. ⚠

Brad

Yeah, yeah, good. Other— let's keep the focus on Abraham and Isaac at the moment, for the moment. Other things to say about this?

Student

Yeah. Could you explain maybe a little bit why the story is called The Binding?

Brad

So in Hebrew, it's Aqedah. And I mean, it's literally referring to the fact that he tied him to the altar. And he had to tie him to the altar because he wasn't going willingly. Right? So, yeah, so the father is tying his son down to the altar. And I don't know, is that disturbing? A little bit? Yeah? It's disturbing to most everybody who reads the text, right? What do you think about the fact that, I mean, there was— does he hesitate? I mean, about Angel's point, I mean, if it's a test, he passed in terms of obedience. Yeah, Angel? ⚠

Student

Kind of similar to that, Abraham is almost sacrificing his son, but then right after, God promises all these blessings and in turn gives Isaac maybe a possibly better life. So it's like, what does Isaac owe Abraham, or the other way around? Kind of like have this relationship where it's really complex, where someone's about to die but then also gets saved. I don't know, just made me think of what they owe to each other, what relationship they have after this moment. ⚠

Brad

Abraham and Isaac? I would imagine it's a little stressed after this, right? Yeah. OK, thanks for letting me go, Dad. Yeah, Talia? ⚠

Student

So is Abraham's willingness to sacrifice, I think, is that rooted solely in like a fear of God or his desire to pay God back?

Brad

I mean, what do you think based on the text, on your reading of the text? What do you think motivates him to do it?

Student

I would say both, like his promise to like lead this nation, but then also like some fear of God because we have seen like the way God's can punish those who don't pay back with their own. And like, that goes back to the idea of what you were talking about with like debt as well. ⚠

Brad

Sure. Yeah. Yep. Lucas? I thought it was more because like, was it Abraham and his wife Sarah?

Student

Like, they were really old, so then they like prayed for this son and God gave them a son.

Brad

So I think like Abraham was a obedience that it would be good or be just. Yeah, good. So there's a sacred birth there, right? I mean, Isaac was an auspicious birth, we would say, right? So they were all the— yeah, Nicholas? I've heard that Isaac's been called the Gesalit promise. Along the lines of that before, like since Sunday school. I can't say anything, but it's just a silent promise that Abraham will have, like, I guess, all of God's wishes. Okay, so he's silent in this situation, you know. At least there's no mention of him saying any objection at all. Yeah. ⚠

Student

This might be, like, getting too in-depth of, like, the idea of, like, the comparison. But I was looking— I know we were talking about, like, people like were grateful to, like how we should be grateful to our parents. And I was looking at like the story of how like Śunaḥśepa, like his father— I don't know how to pronounce it. ⚠

Brad

That's all right. Hariścandra.

Student

Yeah, his father like didn't want to sacrifice him, but then Abraham is like, okay, like in his— in the Śunaḥśepa story, like is he a better dad than Abraham? Like I was kind of just trying to like understand how Abraham could be like a good— like, we know he's like a good person, like, through reading the Bible, but like, is he a good father if he's just like ready to kill his son? ⚠

Brad

I mean, I think this is a really important question, right? So then what, what lesson are we supposed to take away from this as, you know, fathers and mothers?

Student

To me, it just seemed like it was like blind— because I know, like, you talked about it's like obedience and faith, like, that's what the story teaches us, but it's like, that's like kind of blind obedience, which which I feel like can be kind of dangerous. ⚠

Brad

It can be, right? I mean, he's hearing a voice in his head, right? And the voice in his head is saying kill your son. And he's like, OK. ⚠

Student

I was kind of thinking the same thing. Abraham is doing this out of faith. But how does that make him any different from the dad who was willing to kill his son for more cattle? Willing to sacrifice their son.

Brad

Okay. I mean, there's some similarities and some differences there, right? Yeah. Yeah. Cooper. ⚠

Student

I feel like the blind faith we were talking about is even crazier when you think about like the promise, because like Isaac isn't just like a son, like he is the future of the covenant. By like him listening to this voice in his head, like he's basically to his knowledge, like sacrificing this promise right then and there. ⚠

Brad

Yeah, good.

Student

Yeah, something that we were kind of talking about is that maybe like the kind of point of the text is that if you place like God or like, you know, whatever you believe as your number one priority, your number one value, as like your, like your meta-narrative kind of, then like everything else will kind of fall in line. So it's not that he's like, he's valuing God and like whatever God says over his son. Son because subsequently it will work out for his family if he values God over his son. So it's not like if you follow God, I guess the takeaway is if you listen, then it will all work out. Even if it doesn't seem like it's going to work out, it will, especially if you fuck your family. ⚠

Brad

I mean, on the surface, it sounds like listening to God and being obedient to God, those sound like responsible things to do, right? Even if God is saying murder your son. But on the other hand, shouldn't we like pause and question, am I hearing the instructions right? Like, am I understanding right? Like, so it's not so much questioning God maybe, but it shouldn't we pause and question whether or not we're understanding the voice of God? Yeah. ⚠

Student

It's like the terrifying absolute of divine command. Yeah, that is the thing. You can't really question it. It's like you just have to follow it and see if you'll prosper after. ⚠

Brad

But if you hear a voice in your head and you believe that it's the voice of God, does that make it so?

Student

Yeah, I mean, obviously not necessarily. Like, you have no way to know if it's God, but We talked about all the blind faith, and I think that after all his praying and stuff, it was like the most logical conclusion he came to. You know, if it's just a voice in his head and he ends up killing his son, I mean, he can blame it on that at least. ⚠

Brad

Blame it on— yeah, I mean, but he doesn't even pause. He doesn't even pause to reflect and wonder, you know, am I— did I— you know, have too much wine, or, you know, it's like no doubt in his mind. He just— yeah. ⚠

Student

Can we just go back for a second? When it says, do not lay your hand on the boy or do anything to him, for now I know that you fear God. ⚠

Brad

Yeah.

Student

But is it fear or is it faith?

Brad

Or is there a difference, right? Yeah. Over— what is it? What's that building? It's like the It's where I go to get my parking sticker. Sure, if you go up to like the front of Lions, right, on that there's like text written on there, right? This is, yeah, like wisdom is the fear of God, right? I don't know, is it though? Is there a relationship between faith and— what's the relationship between faith and fear? And also like parenting, right? Like, I don't know if If anybody threatens me and, like, you know, I'm going to kill you or do something bad to you if you don't murder your son, I'm still not going to murder my son, right? I don't know. Like, is that— is fear, fear for self, isn't that something selfish there? Yeah, Tana? ⚠

Student

I think there's a difference between fear and, like, horror movie fear where you're like, like scared, like, to submission and just an acknowledgement that God is, like, all-powerful and that, that is where the fear comes from. Not that, like, I'm scared of God, but, like, I know, like, what God can do. ⚠

Brad

But again, though, right, like, if my biggest fear would be that my— something would happen to my kids, right? So, like, nothing could be scarier to me than, like, something happening to my kids. Yeah, I was going to kind of agree with her and say like the fear is a little bit of like having humility and like acknowledging that someone's like more powerful than you. ⚠

Student

So I think that was kind of how I thought about it.

Brad

Okay. All right. Yeah. Fair. Good. Yeah. Isabel? ⚠

Student

Maybe it's like faith that the decision is the right one, not necessarily because like maybe— I don't know where I believe in God. ⚠

Brad

So maybe, excuse me, so maybe, are you saying that he had faith all along that it wasn't gonna happen, right? That God was gonna intervene at something? I mean, he does say in the He does say, like, God will provide the lamb, right? Verse 8, God will provide himself the lamb for the burnt offering. So he specifically uses the word lamb there, right? So not just God will provide the offering, but God will provide the lamb for the offering, you know. So yeah, maybe it's faith that he's not going to have to do it, but then is that just— is it all just play-acting then? Yeah, Max. ⚠

Student

Just like faith that God has— his faith that God has the right intentions for him too, that he's not gonna do something to like actually harm him. And like, that's when you see when God sees his loyalty and like the trust that both him and his son had in him. Like, obviously the son was saved, so I feel like it's just the faith that God's gonna lead you the right way and he eventually does. ⚠

Brad

So like, if I'm putting something together from IKEA, it's like, you know, I may not understand the instructions, but I have faith that the instructions will lead me there. Yeah, okay. Yep. Alice? ⚠

Student

I feel like that kind of implies that like he has this faith that's strong enough to know that what God has in store for him is like, it'll all work out in the end. The text kind of implies that he's going to come back alone. He doesn't explicitly say the boy dies and I'm coming back alone. ⚠

Brad

Yeah, good astute observation. Wilkes, and then Delaney. ⚠

Student

Also, what's worse, death or scornment by God? It's kind of obvious that it would probably be better to— if we're accepting this as not saying maybe there's a voice in the head, but If it's literally God or some figure, then pretty obviously it'd be better to put your faith in that dying of your son would be okay than the other side, which would be some negative outcome by God, which would obviously be incomprehensible but probably worse. So you kind of have to pick the easier or the better option. ⚠

Brad

Which is following the instruction?

Student

I would think so, yeah. I mean, I think so.

Brad

So kind of back to Max's point, like trust, have faith that the instruction is going to lead to something. Yeah. Good. Okay, Delaney? ⚠

Student

Yeah, I think that's a good point. Like really trusting that whatever happens is going to be like the decision that's beneficial to the many. Because like you were saying, I don't necessarily think it was like play acting where you believe like the death and you wouldn't. Happen because he had to be stopped at like the very last possible second, like before the knife like literally hit Isaac. So I think if he truly believed that it wasn't gonna happen, then there would have been something before that last possible moment that would have stopped him. ⚠

Brad

Okay.

Student

Yeah? I just had a question. How old was Isaac? Like when this happened? ⚠

Brad

I don't think that we're told, but He seems to be like a teenager.

Student

Okay, because I feel like that also leads to our point. We were talking about the fact that Abraham has this sense of obedience and faith, but also if Isaac is old enough to form his own thoughts and opinions, he's willing to go into this. And he doesn't seem to have that same sense of desire for life as we've seen in the other texts that we've read before this. So I just think that that's interesting, that like maybe he doesn't have like this desire for life and maybe he's like more— I don't know. ⚠

Brad

I mean, I hear you, but he also— it doesn't seem to be that he knows that he's going to be sacrificed, right? So yeah.

Student

I thought it was interesting, we brought it up a little earlier, how Abraham says like, oh, the Lord or God will provide the lamb for the sacrifice. Uh, and so Someone had brought up earlier, like, Abraham and Sarah had asked God for a son. Yeah, so it's in the sense God had literally provided Isaac as the lamb for the sacrifice, even though the sacrifice didn't go through. Like, that was fulfilled. ⚠

Brad

Okay, so good. Um, so let's, um, we didn't read that part, right, on Abraham and Sarah. Um, but there was, um Part of my point actually is that anytime we're reading any of these sacred texts, you know, we're kind of taking them out of context, right? So we're just kind of reading this, and then there's so many other things like that, but they're pertinent, right? Likewise with the Śunaḥśepa story and with the other stories, you know, we just don't— we can't read everything, right? So more context would lead to different directions, right? So in that line of thinking, there is some more context actually here that, that we're missing. Those of you who may know the Genesis text a little bit more know that Isaac is not Abraham's first son, right? I mean, it says a few times in here, doesn't it? Your firstborn son. But he's not his firstborn son. Who's his firstborn son? Yeah. I forgot his name, but I know that he slept with his wife's servant. Yeah. That was his firstborn son, but then it's not Sarah's son. Right. So it's Hagar. Hagar is the slave. ⚠

Brad

So he sleeps with the slave and produces Ishmael. So Ishmael is his firstborn son. And then Isaac comes along, and then Sarah's like, you know, get that hoochie out of my house, right? I mean, she doesn't need to be here anymore, and she should take her son with her. And if this were a religion course, which it's not, but if it were, then, you know, we might talk about the importance of this story geopolitically, you know, today. Even this week. So this story is very important geopolitically. The, the Aqedah takes place on Mount Moriah, which is current-day the Dome of the Rock. You know, if you've seen pictures of Jerusalem or maybe been to Jerusalem, there's a big golden dome, right? That golden dome is called the Dome of the Rock, and it's over the rock where this this encounter takes place. For most Muslims, it is the same story. For a smaller group of Muslims, it's not actually Isaac that was almost sacrificed, but his firstborn son, Ishmael. Why does that matter? Because the descendants of Isaac become the tribes of Israel, 12 tribes of Israel. ⚠

Brad

So the descendants— so the Jews are descendants of Isaac, right? Whereas the modern-day Palestinians, so Canaanites, Ammonites, all those tribes descended from Ishmael, right? So the point being, both the Palestinians and the Israelites are descendants of Abraham, right? But some from Sarah and her son, and some from Hagar and her son. So all of that maybe seems a little bit relevant here, right? Another key— another key context that we're missing is there's something else that happens here. And those of you who took my class last semester, we studied this a little bit, but Abraham is told to murder his son Isaac, and he immediately, without hesitation, says, "Okay," right? "Grab the rope. We're going," right? No hesitation here at all, right? No hesitation, no thought, no, you know, hesitate, no argument at all. Whereas earlier in the text, just a couple of chapters earlier, in fact, God tells Abraham, "Hey, I'm gonna destroy these two cities, Sodom and Gomorrah," and And what is Abraham's response? Yeah, yeah, he's like, I mean, you're gonna destroy the entire cities, both cities, all of the cities, right? Why? And God's like, well, because there's bad people there. ⚠

Brad

And Abraham's like, but aren't there good people there too, right? So you're gonna destroy the good people along with the bad people, right? That doesn't seem just, right? That seems unjust, actually, right? To punish the righteous along with the wicked. So if you're gonna punish the wicked, fine, I have no argument, right? But, but don't punish, you know. So my point being, the point being, that Abraham argues with God in defense of Sodom and Gomorrah even though he has really no connection at all there. His brother lives there, but the whole point of God telling Abraham that is so that he could tell his brother and get him out of there. His brother does get out. But so then, what's the difference then, right? Why would Abraham argue with God over the destruction of Sodom and Gomorrah, but not argue at all with God over the sacrifice of his own son? Yes, Hannah? ⚠

Student

Maybe after witnessing What God is actually capable of doing. The second time, he understood that it doesn't matter if he argues, God's will is still going to happen. ⚠

Brad

Okay, so he learned from the first time not to argue. Okay.

Student

I think they're also kind of two different circumstances. One is just like God's telling Abraham that he's going to do this, but it's not necessarily to him. And if a friend says, hey, I'm going to go get a coffee, It gets much easier to be like, oh, no, you shouldn't get a water, you know, like something like that. But whereas in the second circumstance, God is like directly telling Abraham to do this. And so it's just different. Like one directly involves and is like a direct command. ⚠

Brad

Okay.

Student

It's a direct command. Like, how are you really going to argue against a direct command against you versus like a plan for someone else? Okay, see what I'm saying? ⚠

Brad

I do, I do see what you're saying. Yeah, that's a good point, Angel.

Student

It kind of makes me think about like his intentions and his desires, like why he's God-fearing. Like, is it because he's truly God-fearing, or is it because he wants to be the father of a great nation?

Brad

You know, I just want to know, like, kind of like his state of mind, because he doesn't seem God-fearing when he's arguing with God over the destruction of Sodom and Gomorrah. He seems pretty ballsy, actually, right? You Yeah, pretty bold. Yep. ⚠

Student

Well, I have to—

Student

I view it as like there's two different kinds of tests. Like the one where like with his son, it's like that test of obedience. And then like the other one's like kind of a test of like, what is your answer going to be to like my plans and what I'm doing? Like God's telling him, like giving him that opportunity to like kind of be like, wait, like there's righteous people there. But like another way, it's like God is telling him to do it. And I think that's his test. ⚠

Student

Like, are you going to be obedient to me or not?

Brad

Okay. Other insights? Yeah, Mickey.

Student

I mean, I agree with all that was said, but I think there's also like some kind of difference because it was a little bit more punishment-based towards the bad people. And I think that Abraham was kind of like, they're still good people, why should they be punished too? Versus a sacrifice, it could have been deemed as like a little more necessary, even if it was his own son. Also, just like the amount of people was very different. I know someone's son is obviously like worth a lot more to them. ⚠

Brad

I mean, now that you say that, it makes me even think that the contrast is even more sharp, right? Because Abraham's argument against destroying Sodom and Gomorrah is because there are innocent people there, right? And now God's saying kill your son, who's presumably innocent, right? He's not being punished. So why would he stand up for Sodom and Gomorrah the innocent people there, but not stand up for his own son.

Student

I was just going to say, I think that maybe Abraham felt like a greater sense of obligation because as you were talking about, like, Isaac is like this divine promise that was given to Abraham by God. And so Abraham had in some way had to give him back.

Brad

OK. So there maybe we see more than a few connections between Hariścandra and Rohita, right? Hariścandra really wanted a son and prayed to Indra, please can I have a son? And if you'll give me a son, I'll sacrifice the son to you, right? And so here it's like you've been given the son by God and now you have to give it back, okay? Yeah, one thing I want to point out, this is also not Jewish class, but a little bit, if we were looking at this text, we're really kind of looking at this text from a Christian perspective because it's Christian theology class. But if we were to look at a little bit more from a Jewish perspective, Jewish theological perspective, this is what the Midrash looks like. So Midrash is a group of sacred texts, right? So you've got the Torah, the text that we're reading, And the Midrash is written like this with the— or the Talmud— with the sacred text at the center, like literally at the center of the scroll, center of the page. And then around it are all of these commentaries written by different rabbis, right? ⚠

44:51

Comparative Analysis: Abraham and Hariścandra

Brad

So not just your ordinary rabbis, but, you know, the most authoritative ancient rabbis over centuries. Right, like Rabbi Akiva and Rashi and others. And the way the text is written, like, you've got the text at the center, Genesis, like, I just, you know, Genesis 22:1 or something like that, just to grab one. And then around it you've got all these commentaries. So like Akiva commentating on this and then Rashi commentating on this, and sometimes the commentators commentate on the other commentators, right? And sometimes they're like, Akiva is missing this point, or Rashi, you know, overemphasizes this, or whatever, right? So sometimes they're arguing with one another, sometimes they're just providing different perspectives. But the point being is that to be— that the— so on this particular text, there's a couple points. In this particular text, the Talmud is really uncomfortable about the moral takeaway from this text, right? It's like, okay, fine, Abraham did this thing. ⚠

Brad

This text tells us about Abraham, but I don't want the fathers and mothers in my temple to be hearing voices in their head and thinking it's okay, that it's good actually to go and murder their sons and daughters, right? So the commentators, even in the oldest commentators, are very uncomfortable with this. Right? And so what— how many modern scholars, you know, will look at it, it's like, well, to be a good— to be a good person, right, the point is to anchor your moral reasoning in the text, right? Anchor it in the scripture, but you got to read that text through the lens of all of these different thinkers, right? So you've got to You've got to hear Akiva, and you've got to hear Rashi, you've got to hear all the, you know, all the rabbis, and they will give you the framework to kind of think critically about your own moral reasoning. Does that make sense? So, you know, a little bit maybe about what we were just doing, right? We're kind of performing that, and that's also kind of what you're doing in your podcast. Cool questions, thoughts, last words on the Aqedah? ⚠

Brad

I mean, we got to cook.

Student

Yeah, we were reading A Naturalist and Persons, my philosophy class, and one of the lines it says, you know, if your philosophical beliefs are wrong, you get ridiculed. If your religious beliefs are wrong, it's dangerous. Yeah, and I think for something especially like this, where if you just have blind faith and you have— we have, as we've seen in the past and in the present, you know, having blind faith in anything can be dangerous and ignorant. But if you kind of apply your faith with reason, and you maybe stop and think— and it doesn't have to be challenging God, but has to think, what is God actually trying to tell me? Or what is, you know, what am I actually supposed to be doing? Like, maybe what, what I think I'm hearing isn't what I'm actually supposed to be doing. ⚠

Brad

Yeah.

Student

So just, you know, following God blindly maybe isn't always the right thing to do either.

Brad

Which is actually what most of these rabbis are most concerned about, right? It's not that Abraham did the right thing or the wrong thing. They're just concerned about the fact that he does it without hesitation, right? Shouldn't we think through, if you hear the voice of God in your head, you know, I mean, on the one hand it sounds really good, but make sure that it's not a hallucination. Make sure it's not, you know, delusion or something like that, right? Because those things are actually more common, maybe that. Yeah. ⚠

Student

So I'm not familiar with the context you provided earlier where he was talking to God. And did God end up destroying those cities?

Brad

Yes.

Student

Okay. So maybe like that's part of the reason, like he did this without hesitation is because like he has evidence of him carrying out like his will prior. So now he's just like, oh, like it's the same thing. Let me, let me just do what he says.

Brad

Yeah, I think that was— yeah. Tanner's point or some other two. Yeah, no, I think there's something to say there. Yeah, so that part, he starts with 50. If I find 50 righteous people, will you save the cities? And then he gets it all the way down to 10, and God's like, yeah, all right, if you find 10 righteous people, then I'll save the cities. But then he never gets the opportunity. The cities are actually destroyed before he gets a chance to even go and try and find 10. Yeah, good. Let's— yeah, Tana, go ahead. Yeah, the previous section stumped me on that question too. I don't know of any significance. I don't know if there is a significance or not. My guess is that You know, certainly some theologians see some significance there. I just, I don't really know the answer to the question. I mean, it's significant that there's a substitute, obviously. But if it's significant that it's a ram, I don't know. Good question. Yeah, Olivia? ⚠

Student

This just, that question just kind of reminded me of like, I know in the other story we talked about with like, obviously, the one sacrifice like the one person was like a better sacrifice. Yeah, but now we have this idea like, I don't think a ram is better than Isaac. ⚠

Brad

Oh yeah, so God's willing to take a step down kind of thing. Yeah, interesting. Yeah, there's also like, is there some preference for Isaac over Ishmael? Yeah, yeah, good. All right, let's, let's shift our attention to the, the next text because Yeah, just because of time. Yeah, so the Passover, what— I think there's lots to say here. Anybody want to get us started on that? Yeah, Max? ⚠

Student

So it's similar to the first text where they're substituting sacrifice for animal again.

51:46

Exodus, Passover Rituals, and the Concept of Covenant

Brad

Yeah.

Student

And God's sort of like in a different way pass over, but he's still watching over them, making sure that no harm will come to them. ⚠

Brad

Okay, good. So we've got a sacrifice and a substitute. Yeah, Jake? Uh, we had a question on like why, or if there was like a reason that it was so detailed in like the sacrifice, like with the timing of everything on like the 14th day. ⚠

Student

Yeah, is there like a significance to that?

Brad

I mean, there is, I don't know, I mean, so the, on the one hand, one thing that's significant, at least for us, is that the text seems to be simultaneously telling us something that happened, right, like a historical event, past event, and also giving us very specific instructions of how to remember that, right? Right? So normally you would expect, here's a— here's something that happened, and now here's how we commemorate that event, right? But here we're getting both at the same time. So we're being told the story at the same time that we're being told how to remember the story, which is interesting, right? So I think those 14 days and those kind of things have more to do with like when we remember it and when, right? But as far as the specific days, I mean, 14 days is significant generally. Why? It's a lunar cycle, right? So you have 14 days from the new moon to the full moon. You have 14 days from the full moon to the new moon, right? So, yeah, yeah, Boris, and then— ⚠

Student

I was just gonna say, this one out of all three had a really strong focus on rituals. Yeah, it was just interesting because I wasn't really familiar with Christian rituals as opposed to the Vedas. There's a whole section of the Veda on Hindu rituals, whereas here it's like very specific instructions, kind of like what we read before about building an altar kind of thing. ⚠

Brad

Okay.

Student

Very like instructions that are very specific on what to do.

Brad

Yeah, good. Yeah, Biggie?

Student

I just had a question on like, I understand why Egypt was being punished and all that, but why the firstborn son specifically? Like, it's not like they— I mean, I'm assuming they're kids, right? So they didn't— contribute to any of the wrongdoings, but they all die. ⚠

Brad

So just like, just 'cause— that's also a little bit disturbing, isn't it? Yeah, yeah, I think so. Yeah, Nicholas? Because like, just back then, firstborn son just carries the last significance, like the family, like they'll carry over like most of like the fatherly duties. ⚠

Student

Like, you know, it's always like firstborn son.

Brad

Yeah, it seems like a recurring thing throughout the Bible.

Student

The firstborn son is the one that either receives the good or the bad, kind of, many contexts. ⚠

Brad

Sure, yes. But the point is, like, why— I mean, it's just like, it's all the firstborn sons, right? And it's not— doesn't seem to be any correlation between the ones that are committing the sin of enslavement versus just everybody else. Yeah, Drona? ⚠

Student

It could also be— we actually talked about this earlier— the Egyptians with killing Jewish firstborn sons, actually like all their sons. ⚠

Brad

Okay, so that might be kind of like tit for tat to that.

Student

And also, I don't know how historically accurate this is, but I know like the movie where it shows like the all the plagues, like the Pharaoh really like adores his firstborn son. It's like the most important thing to him.

Brad

Yeah, um, so I don't know if that's historically accurate or not. I mean, one hopes.

Student

Yeah, maybe that's God getting at him specifically too.

Brad

Yeah, it's a little dark though, isn't it? Yeah, yeah. Good. Angel, anything? ⚠

Student

What also like kind of disturbed me was like, if you're someone who's like Jewish and being persecuted and you don't complete the ritual, like you don't put the blood on your door, like you won't get, you won't get passed over. You'll suffer this plague as well.

Brad

Yeah, so there is, um, and this is a major theme within all the Hebrew scriptures, which is the idea of covenant, right? So that covenant is two-sided in almost every case. And so that two-sided, it's like there's a covenant with Abraham, and it's like if you, you know, if you're circumcised, then you're part of the community, and if you're not, then you're not, right? So it's voluntary covenant. And in Exodus, later in Exodus, likewise, there's a covenant that's offered, and you can accept it or deny it, right? So here it's like, here you have a choice. You have agency. So you either sacrifice this lamb, and then that's your entrance into this deal. But there's an agency there. So there's a give and a take. Both sides have something to— yeah, it's almost transactional a little bit. Yeah, Delaney? ⚠

Student

I might be reading too much into this, but I'm a little confused about the force that's actually carrying out these deaths and collecting the sacrifice? Because I read when God's angel of death spilled the blood. And I was really paying attention to God's angel of death suggesting that it's a being distinct from God and that God maybe has multiple parts. So is this being distinct from God, or is it still God himself carrying out the sacrifice? ⚠

Brad

Yeah, I have no answer to that, but that's a great question. Yeah, I mean, it does say in verse 12, which does not answer your question, but it's on your point, for I will pass through the land of Egypt that night, and I will strike down the firstborn in the land of Egypt, both man and beast. So it is very personal. And so then, yeah, does that— what does that mean? Is that just— is it the breath of God? Is the Spirit of God? What is this angel of death? Is that somebody that's doing? Yeah, pretty much just your question. Yeah, good. Yeah, Sophia? ⚠

Student

I think I've heard you ask this, but what like makes sacrificing the animal like necessarily better than the human? Like, I don't know, it still feels like wrong, or it should feel wrong in God's eyes. ⚠

Brad

To sacrifice the animal? Yeah. Um, yeah, uh, I don't know. One point of context there though, I can't really I don't know the answer to that question either. But one bit of context, if we were to look back to the earlier part of Genesis, towards the very beginning of Genesis, we have Adam and Eve, and they have two kids, Cain and Abel. And Cain is a farmer. He's like, yeah, like agrarian farmer. He grows plants. And then Abel is like a— He does husbandry, right? So he raises animals. And both of them offer sacrifice to God. So Cain sacrifices some of the grains that he's raised, and Abel sacrifices an animal. And so a blood sacrifice versus a grain sacrifice. And God straight up just says, like, meat's better, right? The blood sacrifice is better. And so there's that, but that doesn't answer your question about, you know, human versus not. But yeah, good. Others? Yeah, Hannah. ⚠

Student

I feel like it was kind of like the sacrifice of the lamb versus the child, is that like it's obviously still suffering, but it's like it's a lesser evil, or like, if you're sacrificing the firstborn son, like just a child in general, you're like taking away the future. ⚠

Brad

Yeah.

Student

Whereas like the lamb isn't like— it's not gonna necessarily like produce any— like produce more offspring or like have any real like, um, I don't know, like have any real like involvement or like production like into like society. ⚠

Brad

—your community. Okay. Yeah. Good. Yep. Tina?

Student

I also think that disregarding whether one is better than the other, I think some point of it is that there needs to be a sacrifice either way. So the lamb is like a sacrifice instead of the human. It's not that it's any better or worse. It's just like a sacrifice in place.

Brad

And it's kind of to show God's mercy for those. Okay. Yeah. Nicholas. I think it just goes back to substituting again. ⚠

Student

Lamb's a substitute.

Brad

The ram was the substitute. I think just recurring theme. Yeah, for sure. Yeah.

Student

This is kind of like going ahead to the last, but the idea of substitution also comes in with the person, like the suffering servant, like that idea. And one thing we were talking about how I thought was interesting interesting was like in this, like in regards to like the Torah, like it seems that like Israel as a nation is the suffering servant. Then when like I think about like Christian like values and beliefs, like the suffering servant is like Jesus. So I just think that's interesting how it's like there's a difference. ⚠

Brad

Yeah, I mean there's no doubt that the early Christians read the suffering servant as Jesus and Jesus as the suffering servant. And I think you raise a really interesting, a really good point, which is that it could be that it's referring not just to a person, but to a group of people or to the nation itself. And also on that point, because we can include Isaiah in here too, there's no mention in this particular passage about sacrifice or ritual, right? So all the other ones, all of the other passages I think in this unit refer specifically to rituals and sacrifices, and this one I'm lumping it in here, but there's nothing because for the reason that you already pointed out, it's, yeah, the early Christians read it very much in that lens, right? But there's nothing in the text specifically that says the suffering servant is a sacrifice to God, you know, or ritual or something like that. Yep, good point. Others? Yeah, Tana. ⚠

Student

It's kind of like a logistical question, but how did— if these instructions for the Passover are so descriptive and specific, how did that message get to everybody? It's almost like the instructions are hard to follow.

Brad

Yeah. Very interesting question. Yeah, I've never really thought about that question. Yeah, interesting. I assume they had a group chat. You have something similar elsewhere in Exodus where Moses goes up on top of the mountain, Mount Sinai, to receive to receive the Ten Commandments. And then while he's up there receiving all these commandments, the people down at the bottom of the hill break the commandments, and then God wants to kill all of them. And Moses is basically like, bro, I haven't even told them the commandments yet, right? Like, my cell phone battery died like hours ago, man. Yeah, good points. Others? What do you make of this? I mean, there's a lot in here about like leaven, right? Like there's so much about leavening bread. I feel like, you know, the text hits that point pretty hard. What is the point? I don't even know what does it mean, but just what is the point? What is the trend? What does it say? What is leaven? Anybody make bread? Yeah? That's like without yeast, right? Yeah, so yeast is a form of leaven. It's the most common form of leaven. ⚠

Brad

Yeah, you also have baking soda, you know, so yeah, but usually it's yeast. I think that's what's meant here. So what happens? How does yeast leaven? Yeah? It's a rising agent. Yeah, how does it work? Anybody know? Yeah. It ferments and then releases gases that help it rise. Yeah, and fermenting basically, I mean, in this case it really means it's eating, right? So then you're bringing the— you're rehydrating the yeast, comes back to life, then it, you know, prop— it proliferates, makes a lot more, and then it consumes the sugars right? Very much like yogurt and curd, right? So it consumes the sugars, and then the byproduct of that consumption— I mean, basically it's urine, right?— is alcohol. And so it produces alcohol, and then that alcohol— alcohol has a very low boiling point, right? So then it evaporates, and as it evaporates, that evaporation kind of lifts the bread, right? So if you're making bread, then you, you know, anybody make bread? How do you make bread? ⚠

Student

Yeah? You just activate the yeast, give it a little bit of food, mix it all together, and let it rise. ⚠

Brad

You got to let it rise. Yeah, so you got to let it rise, and that takes time, right? And that's the— you got to be patient there. You got to let it rise. So here the emphasis is on urgency, right? I mean, you can look at verse 11, Exodus 12, verse 11. "In this manner you shall eat it." Here, not talking about the leaven, but about the lamb that's sacrificed. "With your belt fastened and your sandals on your feet and your staff in your hand, and you shall eat it in haste." And then all this thing about leaven. You don't have time to wait for the bread to rise, right? You got to be ready to go. Yeah, bags in the car, right? All that kind of stuff. Yeah, good. We will— a little bit of this is, you know, looking ahead because we will see, you know, things about leavening in the New Testament as well. Good. Other points? Thoughts? Francis, we can come back to your question about grace. So what was it you were asking about grace? Grace and— ⚠

Student

I just talked about like that they weren't actually received promises because of something he did, or like he was already chosen by grace. ⚠

Brad

Okay. Okay, and so why raise that question? Explain a little bit more.

Student

If it is truly chosen by grace, so like Abraham's faith should not be earned. ⚠

1:06:57

Theology of Grace and Midterm Reminders

Brad

Okay, yeah, grace can't be earned, right? Grace is free, so no, it's non-transactional. Yeah? So you're saying he was gracefully chosen? What are you saying? ⚠

Student

Is he already chosen or just something God told him to do? ⚠

Brad

Yeah, I mean, he is at some level chosen. He's chosen to become the father of many nations and that sort of thing. He's chosen. There's also this kid Melchizedek in there that this like curious little figure that seems to— yeah, so he in some sense is chosen, but it seems like he's chosen because of some of his attributes or characteristics that God sees in him. Yeah, Olivia? ⚠

Student

I just had like something like towards the end of the chapter, like the idea that like difference like constitutes harmony. I think that like the example of the orchestra really helps me to better understand that because, like, you need all of these different things, like, to create a harmony. And, like, they can't be the same thing, but they're also not completely different. So I think that helped, like, when you were talking about, like, ear training and, like, trying to figure out a way to find, like, similarities in text but also recognizing their differences. ⚠

Brad

I think that helped me at least. Good. Right on. Which there was a question about that on the quiz. But we're there. And it's also a root on the board because it should be part of your podcast. So I would like, as part of your podcast, podcast number 2, I want you to specifically talk about those two methods, those Hindu theological methods of upasamhara and samadvaya. So those are in section 8.4, so the end of section 8. Which then, yeah, I bring up again at the end of Chapter 9. Good? Other questions, thoughts? We got too much time because we missed the quiz. I should just hand out the quiz and have you do it real fast. All right, now it's on me. Okay, next week we're going to start the mahavakyas. So we've got a unit on the mahavakyas, which are the four great sayings that we learned about from Ramanuja. And I also put a link in the course doc to a video from Ramanuja, which I think I listened to it this morning. I mean, even on double speed, it takes like, you know, half an hour or something long. ⚠

Brad

It's very good. And yeah, so Ramanuja is the same one we read earlier in the semester. I would also, you know, encourage you at some time, sometime between now and the midterm at least, to reread Rambachan. So, you know, at least go over your notes. I think that— don't sleep on that text is kind of what I'm trying to say, right? It's an important, important framing, important text. We might read another chapter from that text a little bit later in the semester. Anyway, let's stop early. Seems like we're stopping early. So yeah, if you don't mind, help me move the tables back. And if anybody wants to take a quiz, we can do that. Otherwise, I'll see you Tuesday. Brad, I was gonna talk about certain details real quick. ⚠

Student

Yeah. Midterm is on this March 10th. Yeah.