Hindu and Christian Theologies in Dialogue

01/29/2026 · Tue/Thu 10:30-11:45 AM · Brad Bannon · Boston College

📄 Synopsis

This session transitions from the administrative organization of student 'Podcast Yajna' teams to a deep dive into the Advaita (non-dual) theological tradition. Dr. Bannon reinforces the phenomenological method, emphasizing the critical distinction between the 'thing itself' and the 'phenomenon' created by the mind. The class explores the Advaita Vedanta perspective through the writings of Anantanand Rambachan, specifically focusing on the 'Parable of the 10th Person' to illustrate how spiritual ignorance often stems from overlooking the self. The discussion moves into the definition of theology as the philosophical investigation of first principles anchored in a canon of text. Using the concept of 'mutually constitutive correlates,' the instructor explains that categories like 'knower' and 'known' or 'father' and 'son' refer to one another and are relative to context. This leads to the core definition of Advaita as 'not two,' a framework for understanding the relationship between the individual self and reality.

⚡ Key Takeaways

Theology is defined as a philosophical investigation of first principles anchored in a canon of texts.
The phenomenological method involves identifying the thing itself, describing the phenomenon (how one understands it), and listening to the perspectives of others.
The 'Parable of the 10th Person' serves as a metaphor for the human condition where the seeker overlooks the fact that they are the very thing they are searching for.
A central Upanishadic solution to the human problem is the realization that 'the seeker is the sought.'
Human identity is a mix of various roles and names—such as son, father, or brother—that indicate specific ways of relating to others.
'Mutually constitutive correlates' are pairs of terms, like 'knower and known,' that define each other and cannot exist in isolation.
Advaita, or non-dualism, suggests that while the knower and the known appear as two, they are fundamentally 'not two.'
The 'Uttara Mimamsa' school of Hindu philosophy focuses on the later part of the Vedas and includes major theologians like Shankara and Ramanuja.
Scripture functions as a 'mirror' that reveals truths about the nature of the self that cannot be known by any other means, such as direct perception.
The theological method used in the course involves placing a sacred text at the center and giving different perspectives on it.

🎤 Transcript Tap any timestamp to jump the audio player

Opening Stillness and Breathwork

Brad

Take a moment to transition. Reset. Clear your heads and just be still for a moment.

Student

It.

Brad

Let's take a breath together. Go ahead and breathe in and out.

Brad

Word.

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Word.

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All right, so

1:19

Administrative: Team Assignments and Attendance

Brad

no quiz today.

Brad

Does mean that I need to take

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attendance, but I think I'm going to take attendance once we get the teams totally worked out.

Brad

I want to make sure that everybody's got a team and that you get some time in teams.

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So is there anybody that's unsure about their team?

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Okay.

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Anybody else?

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All right, let's gather together with your teams.

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Just group together and we'll come up

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with some team numbers and you can come up with team names in a couple days and then we'll figure out. I think you guys are probably going to be with somebody around there, right?

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Yeah.

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Okay, so go ahead and get with

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your team if you know who your team is and then

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figure it out.

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Does anybody have fewer than four people?

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Must be.

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You may have more than four people.

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You have more than four? Five.

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Okay, so I think I'm gonna have

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to peel off one team member and.

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But then we're still 32, I think is divisible by. I don't teach math, but that's what I remember.

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Oh, wait, who are we missing?

Brad

We're probably missing some people.

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All right, let's just go through the

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list and we'll figure out. Okay, so Evan.

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Evan. And okay, so. Evan, you're going to be on team eight.

Brad

Okay.

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We'll come up with a better name

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than Team 8, but for now it'll

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be Team 8 and. Veer. Veer, who's your team?

Brad

We're going to call you Team 7.

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Danielle.

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Hi.

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Team 5.

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Seems right to me.

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Andrew. I think it should be team one. Seems right. Ava.

Brad

See, that worked out.

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Right, so then you should be team six. Right?

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Eight, seven.

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Six, five, four, three. I don't know how that worked out.

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Saive,

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who's on your team? Okay, how about team five?

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Yeah, this is not gonna work out.

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Aiden. Yeah.

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Wait, are you on their team?

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Oh, right.

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Yeah. Okay, you got a number then.

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Yeah.

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So team. What did I say? Seven?

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Yeah.

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Cool. Ally,

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so you have a team number yet?

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5. Logan. 5. Caroline, do you have a team number yet? 5. Wait, did I mess up?

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I missed.

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I'm so bad at things.

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Damn it.

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How did I do that?

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All right, Luke,

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team eight.

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Cool.

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Claire,

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you're one of the team fives.

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Okay.

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Claire, you're going to be team five.

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Logan, you're gonna be team four.

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Who else is on?

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Okay, so Logan's four.

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Ally, Is four.

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Yeah.

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Sive, you're four.

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And then Danielle, you're five.

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Yeah.

Student

Yeah.

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Okay. Colin, seven.

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Right.

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Kellen. Okay, Give me two

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because that makes sense.

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Zongir, do you have a team Eight. Kaylin, eight. Iona, you need a team, right? Okay. We're gonna come back. Castalia, two. Scott, one. Anna, two. tamas.

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Does anybody.

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Wait. Okay, so is Tim. He's on your team.

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Okay. Georgia, team one. Cool. Katie. Yeah. Formerly known as team five.

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Lillian,

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team six. Cool.

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Christine.

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Right.

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Okay, got you. Manny, you have a team right now. Four Sophia, team one. Lauren,

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Cat. Five.

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Brent,

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seven.

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Right. Grace, team six. Okay. All right, so let's see how many

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we got on team eight.

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One, two, three.

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Four.

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Yeah. Four. On team eight. Team seven, we've got Veer, Aiden, Colin,

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Brent.

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Four.

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Team one, we've got Andrew,

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Scott, Anna and Tim.

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No.

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Andrew, Scott,

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Georgia and Sophia.

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Okay, Team two.

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No, Team six. This totally makes sense. This just logic here. You actually dvaita a couple of times. ⚠

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All right, so team six, Ava, Lillian, Lauren, Grace. Team four, Sive, Allie, Logan.

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And here's where we got the thing.

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Right.

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Katie and Manny. Right. So I think.

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And then we don't have a team 3 yet. Correct. So I think we're going to have one of you five slide over to team three.

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And then we'll have Iona and Christine. And then one of you. Any volunteers?

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You cool?

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All right, three. Okay, so Manny's now team three. And then we're still missing a three. Right.

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Team five, how many people we got?

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Raise your hands.

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Team five.

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One, two, three, four.

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Good.

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Team eight.

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We already did this, right?

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Did we go through all of them? Everybody have 4? 4 except for team 3. How does this work? I don't understand this.

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Am I confused? Okay. All right.

Brad

So that could be it.

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That makes sense.

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It does go to 31.

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You're right.

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Okay, cool.

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So we got our teams then, right?

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Yeah.

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Word. So, next thing. So take a few minutes with your teams.

10:21

Podcast Yajna Assignment Guidelines and Logistics

Brad

Yeah.

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So these two ladies right here.

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Yep.

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So take a few minutes with your

Brad

team and

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need to decide a few things.

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One is maybe trade contact info or whatever.

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Set up a group chat or. However you want to. However you want to do it. Pick a time that you're going to meet.

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I'm pretty flexible on the due date.

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My preference is to have it, you

Brad

know, before my commute on Tuesday. But, you know, I understand that the hardest thing about this assignment is finding a time for everybody to meet. So, you know, I'm pretty flexible of that, especially with the first couple of. First couple of Them.

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So figure out time to meet and then figure out your leadership days. So we've got four leadership days, you

Brad

know, for the next unit. So everybody pick a day we're gonna have. Right, so Tuesday is on the three

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hymns of the Rigveda.

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Thursday is on the. The brahmana. And then next Tuesday on the Katha And then next Thursday,

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believe it

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or not, we're going to go over

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to the Christian tradition. We'll have some Christian texts there.

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So just, you know, decide amongst yourselves which day works best for you, and

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then you can let me know.

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And team three, obviously you'll be.

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It's fine.

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Just. There will be a day that you

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won't cover, and that's not a big deal.

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Yeah, the other thing, before you break

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into teams, you can chat about how you're going to. No, no, go ahead, do that.

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Do that. And I'll talk about the next thing

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in a few minutes.

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Yeah, so take a few minutes.

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Get to know each other, whatever.

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Chill.

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It's all good.

Student

So obviously,

Student

No, I like.

Student

Okay, Well,

Student

I forgot I bought tickets.

Student

Gets, like,

Brad

Anytime from, like, 1 to 5.

Student

I don't know how we still got, like, okay, freshman.

Brad

So everybody just brings, like, something they

Student

want to talk about.

Brad

It's like, drill.

Student

I'm just, like, doing it on my phone. Were, like, leaving practice in the car.

Student

I'm like, please work. I was like, this is so lame.

Brad

Cool. Got it all worked out.

Brad

Yeah.

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Right on.

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So for podcast yajna like you to follow this format.

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Just kind of follow this little agenda.

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So start with introductions, you know, just upanishads, whatever. Whatever you want to say about whatever you say. And I don't know, it's like, I

Brad

like to get people laughing at the

Brad

front, at the beginning.

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I think it's, you know, sets the right tone. Just do something fun, silly, whatever, and

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tell a joke or.

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Or sing a song or dancing.

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Doesn't really work because it's audio pretty

Brad

much, you know, but, I don't know, do something fun, funny, whatever. Don't overthink it. Then I like. I'd like everybody to kind of have something to say about each one of these things. I think normally for podcasts, after this, we typically have, you know, four things

Brad

to talk about and four people to talk about them. So you can, you know, basically take

Brad

a turn leading this time. We have a little bit more than that, a little bit more to come, and I'd really kind of like to have everybody, you know, I don't know, like, you could dvaita however you want. Everybody could kind of talk about phenomenology, phonological method, basically, you know, the opening day lecture, theology, chapter one.

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And

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yeah, you get the idea.

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Right.

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You can then dvaita up the.

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You could do however you want on this.

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So don't, you know, as long as

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you kind of go in through all of these things and starting to see how things connect together.

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As you can see, there's a lot on seeing and vision.

Brad

Right.

Brad

Even the phenomenology and phenomenological method, largely about seeing and vision and.

Student

Yeah.

Brad

And then kind of end off on Rambachan.

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I don't expect you to understand Rambachan at this point, but I expect you

Brad

to kind of be struggling with it

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and working with it.

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Right.

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Trying your best to understand it. And I think especially on this one, it's very likely that, you know, each

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one of you are going to understand part of Rambachan and through the discourse, you hopefully might, you know, begin to understand it better. Right.

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So if each of you understands a little bit different parts or understands a

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different way or whatever, you know, through

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the discussion about it, then you can at least, at the very least maybe clarify some questions.

Brad

Right.

Brad

So like, Brad's got to answer this, you know, in class or whatever.

Brad

Good questions. Yeah.

Student

Like, do you want to say kind of like lead one to six, or do you want us all to have a five minute conversation around those sections where the time is equally spent? ⚠

Brad

Yeah. So for most of the podcasts, for

Brad

all the ones after this, you kind of do like we did last semester,

Brad

which is basically like a five minute,

Brad

each person lead five minutes or so. And again, that's not talk for five

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minutes, that's lead discussion for five minutes.

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Right.

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So talk for a minute or something and then open it up for discussion.

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But for this one, I just want

Brad

you to kind of go through all these things.

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You could have, you know, a different

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person start off like, hey, why don't

Brad

you kick off this conversation and I'll kick off the next one? That sort of thing. Right. But I just kind of want you to talk through all of these for this one. Yeah. So a little bit less regimented.

Brad

Good.

Brad

I'll say a little bit more about future podcasts when we get there, but does that kind of answer your question?

Brad

Yeah.

Brad

Any other questions?

Student

Yeah, after we introduce ourselves, if every time we talk, do you want us to be like, oh, Katie, saw the.

Brad

Yeah, that would be super helpful, especially for the first one or two podcasts. I've been doing this for A long time.

Brad

And I do tend to learn people's voices pretty quickly, but it takes me a couple times.

Brad

Right.

Brad

And so especially for the first one. Especially for the first one. Obviously, I don't know your voices right now. Barely know your faces.

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So. So, yeah, if you.

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You could say things like, you know, good points.

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You know, Katie, good points.

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Logan, you know, what do you think, Scott?

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That kind of stuff. So you can kind of, however you want to drop each other's names, or you can just say, hey, this is Brad talking.

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You know, however, yeah, it doesn't matter.

Brad

But, yeah, it's good for me to

Brad

kind of connect people's voices and names, and it'll take me a couple of podcasts to do that. Other questions?

Brad

Just a couple really super basic things. So when you meet, you can meet

Brad

in person or online most of the time at B.C.

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students meet in person because you're all here. So I think meeting in person is ideal.

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And if you meet in person, then obviously those.

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Who's on Tim's. Tim's.

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Right.

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So Tim, I don't think, may not

Brad

be able to make it, so can have him join in.

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So y' all can either all meet Vi remotely or you can all meet

Brad

in person, and then he'll join in by phone or something.

Brad

It's up to y' all how you do that.

Brad

And. But I think generally, if you're meeting in person, then just use, like, a

Brad

cell phone, you know, to record it.

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Just use your voice recorder, kind of

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set it down in the middle of everybody. Don't slide it around.

Brad

That's, you know, if you're picking it

Brad

up and moving it around, and I get lots of, you know, noises in there.

Student

That's.

Brad

I'm usually listening to it with earbuds or something like that. So it's, you know, just try to make sure everybody's about equidistant. You know, this is not a professional podcast. I'm not gonna, you know, doc you or anything like that because of the sound quality, but just for my own ease of listening. It's good if everybody's kind of relatively the same distance from the microphone and

Brad

just leave it there and don't need to edit.

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Please don't edit.

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Just hit record. You don't need to pause it.

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You don't need to do anything.

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Just hit start, and then when you're done, hit stop. That's all you got to do.

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I will create folders for you.

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So I'll create a shruti for

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each team, and I'll share that with all the members of your team. So when, you know, after you're done

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recording it, just have one person, you know, upload that file to the. To the folder that will be shruti.

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I do expect you all to take equal responsibility in that.

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Obviously one very kind person is going to volunteer to do the recording and

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uploading, but don't just. And it's not all on that person.

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If they get distracted or forget to

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upload it or whatever, then it's your

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job to kind of make sure that it gets done. And if they forget or whatever, if

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there's a failure, then you should reach out to them and say, hey, I don't see it in the folder yet. That sort of thing.

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File name is important.

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So the file name

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should be BC

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that stands for Boston College.

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Then underscore, just visually. And then T for team.

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And then whatever your team number is, you don't have to put a zero

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in front of it, but it's helpful.

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So like team one, team two, team three, Then another underscore, and then the

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letter E for episodes.

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And then in this case it'll just be one.

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You don't need to put a zero in front of that because we're only

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going to have five.

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And then don't mess with the file extension. Hopefully, you know what the difference between a file name and a file extension is.

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If not, this would be a great

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time for you to learn those sort of things. So leave the file extension, whatever it is.

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Right.

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So for most of them, wind up being something like M4A or MP3. If you're doing it video, then it

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might be MP4, but just leave that where it is. Don't delete it and don't change it to something else, because then the file won't work.

Brad

That's it.

Brad

Cool.

Brad

Makes sense.

Brad

So then,

Student

yeah.

Brad

Any other questions

26:15

Lecture: The Phenomenological Method and Seeing

Brad

as far as all of the things up here? You know, we can definitely review any of them today, but among all of them, I feel like maybe I should say a little bit more about phenomenological method. I know I talked a lot about

Brad

phenomenology on day one, but maybe not

Brad

as much about the phenomenological method. So let me just run through that super quick. So phenomenology, key aspect of phenomenology is distinguishing between the thing itself. And

Student

your.

Brad

The phenomenon. Right.

Brad

So whatever.

Brad

So that's the phenomenon.

Brad

So the phenomenon is obviously a creation

Brad

of your mind that hopefully correlates to

Brad

the thing itself, but certainly is not identical to the thing itself. So then, you know, the Idea is you should begin by saying, you know, I want to talk about this.

Brad

That's identifying the thing itself.

Brad

Right.

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Let's talk about atman or let's talk about Saddarshana, or let's talk about Abhava

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brahmana or something that's sort of saying, all right, I want to talk about this. Then, you know, describe the phenomenon.

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Like, how do you understand it? Right.

Brad

So what do you understand about it? What does it mean to you? Describe it in your own words.

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And then.

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And then basically, you know, shut up and listen. Listen to the people around you.

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Right.

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And then so the other folks should

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chime in and say, hey, you know, my understanding of this is a little bit different. Or, you know, oh, yeah, that everything you said. But then also this other thing, Right.

Brad

Or I find this super helpful, you know, related to

Brad

finance or psychology or whatever.

Brad

Right.

Brad

So kind of giving differing perspectives on the thing itself.

Brad

That's it. That's pretty much the phenomenological method. Right.

Brad

So identify the thing itself, describe the

Brad

phenomenon, and then listen to the people

Brad

around you and then just repeat that.

Brad

Yeah, makes sense. Cool.

Brad

And then.

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Yeah.

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So then obviously theology and theological method is basically doing this, but putting the

Brad

text at the center.

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Right.

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And then giving different perspectives on that. Good.

Brad

Right on. So. Oh, and did you pick your leadership days?

Brad

Yeah.

Brad

Okay. So,

Brad

Yeah, you know what?

Brad

I don't really need to know your

Brad

leadership days, do I?

Brad

I don't need.

Brad

I don't need to know. You can just as long as you know them and you come in prepared on your leadership day. I know that sounds. Seems like maybe I do need to know what your leadership days are.

Brad

I don't need to know them right now, though.

Brad

So as long as I could.

Brad

You can tell me on Tuesday, Right.

Brad

At least everybody will know who's leadership on Tuesday. Cool.

30:01

Course Context: Rigveda and the Myth of Sunahshepa

Brad

Oh, so those of you who've.

Brad

Those of you who've had me before,

Brad

familiar with this Brad issue, those of

Brad

you who've not,

Brad

you know, I'm writing this as we go, right. So I'm writing this textbook.

Brad

I wrote this chapter six, actually, before I wrote anything, this was the first thing I wrote,

Brad

but the rest of it.

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So chapter six is done. Chapter six is ready for you to read. Printout, whatever.

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So on the Rigveda, feel free to dive in chapter seven through 13.

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I know the texts that are in

Brad

there and the texts are in your

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reader, but that's all that's in there right now.

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So I am going to write some

Brad

introductions to these texts.

Brad

Yeah.

Brad

So I'm going to write more introductions in context and that sort of thing for the texts and I'll always try to stay as far ahead as I can, but obviously chapter seven is a little bit late right now, so I'm gonna get on that.

Brad

And yeah, at the very worst we'll

Brad

just go with the text that's there. Right. But I want to give you some context on this myth of Sunashipa.

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I kind of.

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Yeah. As I was planning this course and

Brad

designing this course, this particular text became increasingly important. So I really wanted to give you some. Some context and introduction to this particular text before we just dive in on this story about Tsunasheva. Cool.

Brad

Let's, you know,

Brad

let's take a few

31:55

Small Group Discussion: Rambachan and the Nature of Atman

Brad

more minutes in your teams and let's

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try and dive into this text by Rambachan which I asked you to read

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for Tuesday and to.

Brad

Yeah, I feel like this is a challenging text, right? Difficult, difficult read. And yeah.

Brad

So I don't know. Why don't you start with kind of what did you understand about it?

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Just chat amongst yourselves. Chat with your teammates about it.

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What did you understand about it and

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what completely confused you.

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Obviously more specific questions are generally better or easier for me to respond to.

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But yeah, let's just chat about it.

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Take until 10 after.

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Think.

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It.

Student

But then you have the Anna which is like all the influence talk about your physical body. It's not like you're feeling.

Student

It.

Brad

What.

Student

Stuff like from the Veda that says Brahminous.

Brad

It's also worth mentioning.

Student

The offer also talks about the significance

Student

of scripture as like a mirror. The eyes can't see at any but the meat.

Student

Something about how like scripture helps you see yourself. Yourself and then like your physical. Also something about atmos being self luminous like a sun. It doesn't need another light to show itself.

Student

Very interesting too.

Student

It. Sam. It.

Student

Is it just like impossible for the math department or they just like don't recommend it. Was it like actual classes or was it just you had a fun. And we all live together.

Brad

So.

Brad

Okay.

41:09

Class Discussion: The Parable of the Tenth Person

Brad

Any thoughts questions? Start with some questions or thoughts or anything.

Brad

Anything to say.

Brad

It's okay.

Brad

We'll get. We'll get more comfortable chatting in class. I knew if I waited long enough.

Brad

Someone jump in.

Brad

Yes, got it.

Student

Or is this some references material we're talking about now or about podcast stuff?

Brad

I mean really anything.

Brad

But I was thinking.

Student

Yeah, well, we talked about the significance of the importance of scripture or the truth. Like identifying like that meant is like it's a knower but you can't like treat it like as an object that you could like physically look at but through scripture you can kind of use it as like a mirror to like see yourself.

Brad

Yeah, word.

Brad

Great, that's good.

Brad

Yeah.

Brad

So super, super important role for scripture in there.

Brad

Yeah.

Brad

And one of the things that we

Brad

talked about with the Pramanas, right. Each one of the Pramanas, they reveal

Brad

something that you can't know by any other means. Right.

Brad

Direct perception. Obviously you can't know what ice karma tastes like unless you taste ice karma

Brad

So there's no substitute for direct perception.

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But there's also things that you can

Brad

only know from the beta.

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Right.

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And so in this case that's what we're talking about.

Brad

Yeah.

Brad

So something about the nature of the self. Right, yeah.

Brad

Great.

Brad

Thanks for getting us started, Scott.

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Others

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thoughts, questions? Everybody's trying to make eye contact but not for, not for too long.

Brad

We can go through the text. Yeah.

Brad

So you know what, let's start by.

Brad

I think this parable of the 10th person is pretty important parable

Brad

also I

Brad

think I've given you enough context for this but let me just re repeat

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it just to be clear.

Brad

So we've gone over the Sadarshana, right. The six perspectives, the six ways of viewing the Veda.

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And as I said, we're going to

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spend most of our time talking about

Brad

these two, the last two, the two Mimamsas. But really we're going to spend even

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most of our time just on the

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last one, Uttar Mimamsa. And there's two major figures within Mimamsa Uttaramsa.

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Super.

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These are probably the two most famous

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theologians within Hindu tradition and their names

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are Shankara and Ramanuja.

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And we're going to.

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Rambachan is an expert, one of the world experts on Shankara and so definitely

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a disciple of Shankara, A great.

Brad

Yeah.

Brad

Exponent on Shankara.

Brad

And so Shankara, Shankara is an 8th century.

Brad

Yeah.

Brad

8th century theologian from southern, from southern

Brad

India and talk more about, you know,

Brad

historical context and that kind of stuff.

Brad

But so this is a text by Rambachanda vedanta tradition.

Brad

Right.

Brad

He's trying to teach.

Brad

This is actually from. This is chapter three of a book called the.

Brad

Worldview.

Brad

Also I'll just mention I pronounce this word Etueta.

Brad

I pronounce it that way because my guru, my teacher pronounced it that way.

Brad

And so partly because I learned it

Brad

from him, but also out of respect for him, I continue to pronounce it the way he pronounced it.

Brad

It's one of those words that

Brad

tends to be pronounced a little bit differently in the northern part of India than in the southern part of India. You know, not totally different than the

Brad

United States, where things, you know, pronounced differently. Different parts of the country. So in the north, they tend to

Brad

pronounce this as a V. So advaita,

Brad

or some people say advaita. So really pronounce that advaita. That's a pretty common way of saying it.

Brad

I say advaita because that's the way

Brad

my teacher said it.

Brad

So to. Typically, this letter V is sometimes pronounced

Brad

like a V and sometimes like a W. Right. Which is a double V, actually, but whatever.

Brad

all that to say

Brad

this parable

Brad

of the 10th person is super important to Shankara.

Brad

He brings it up quite a few times. He.

Brad

This is a. Yeah, for him, this

Brad

is a really powerful little parable.

Brad

So he uses it with some frequency.

Brad

Anybody want to kind of walk us through it?

Brad

I know you had the quiz on it the other day, but anybody brave enough to kind of say, all right, here's the parable of the 10th person.

Brad

Yeah, Logan, thanks.

Student

So there's this group of 10 people. I forget exactly who, but I believe that they were kind of more holy in nature. And they were crossing this river with rapids, and it's kind of kind of tedious crossing. And as they were crossing it and they got to the other side, they counted out, you know, how many people crossed. And they only counted the night.

Brad

Yeah.

Student

And so they started panicking and wailing, you know, oh, we lost somebody.

Brad

Yeah.

Student

And then somebody who was nearby, I believe it was Carpenter, came up to them, was like, what's the issue? You know, you guys.

Brad

Okay?

Student

And they're like, no, we lost somebody.

Brad

Yeah.

Student

And he goes, all right, who'd you lose?

Student

Like, how many people?

Student

And they said, we only counted nine.

Student

We have 10 people before.

Student

Count them out and realizes There are actually 10 people.

Brad

Yeah. The.

Student

The person who was doing the county with the group leader was. Didn't count themselves.

Brad

Right.

Student

So it's kind of. I kind of took it as a parable to show, like, the. There's, like, ignorance when you're not aware of yourself, when you don't identify yourself, not count yourself out.

Brad

Solid recap.

Brad

Yeah.

Brad

Fire. That's great.

Student

Yeah.

Brad

So the.

Brad

Yeah, you said all the important things. So traditionally, you know who they are. They're pilgrims.

Brad

They're on some sort of pilgrimage.

Brad

They're on sort of a spiritual mission.

Brad

It's not super important to the story, but it's. Yeah.

Brad

So they're on some Sort of spiritual mission.

Brad

But they're kind of missing the point, right.

Brad

Of it.

Brad

There's something that they're missing.

Brad

And, yeah, what they're missing is to count themselves everything.

Brad

You said you've got all the important parts.

Brad

There's one other little subtle detail that's

Brad

not that Ramachandran doesn't mention, but this

Brad

idea that they got to these rapids

Brad

and the boatman wasn't there.

Brad

Right.

Brad

Usually you're waiting for or. So there's a person that can ferry them across in a boat and that person's not there, so they decided to go ahead and brave the rapids.

Brad

But that little detail is also a

Brad

not so subtle reference to the Buddha.

Brad

The Buddha referred to himself as a boatman, right.

Brad

And his teachings as a boat.

Brad

And so the idea is that when you're kind of creating, crossing this dvaita of understanding reality, understanding yourself and your

Brad

place in the world, then the Buddha's

Brad

teachings are something that can help you

Brad

cross from this side of the shore to the other side of the shore. And then the Buddha very famously said,

Brad

once you get to the other side of the shore, you don't need the boat anymore.

Brad

Don't lug this boat around. So Buddha said, don't believe any of

Brad

the things I say, meaning, you know, it's to be used, Right.

Brad

Philosophy that you're supposed to put to the test, see if it works for you. And if it works for you, then

Brad

once it works, you don't need it anymore.

Brad

Right.

Brad

So a little bit of a subtle. Subtle reference to Buddhism there.

Brad

But yeah, the main point, as Logan

Brad

said, is that they. They've forgotten themselves. Right? They're leaving themselves out.

Brad

When I wrote an article a few

Brad

years ago and said maybe this parable would be even easier to understand if instead of, you are the 10th person,

Brad

they said, you are the first person, because it's really the first person that they're leaving out. So the first person meaning I.

Brad

Right. So they're leaving the I out.

Brad

And so kind of studying the world, but leaving themselves out. Good.

Brad

Any

Brad

questions? Super important parable, I think, you know. Yeah, probably keep coming up to that.

Brad

One of the things there that I underlined that I think is relevant and

Brad

a theme that I think comes up a few times.

Brad

Ramachandran says, how does the teacher in

Brad

the upanishads instruct the student about the nature of atman? That just the upanishads solution to the human problem is to point out that

Brad

the seeker is the sought. Right.

Brad

So there again, like, the pilgrims were on the pilgrimage, they were Seeking something.

Brad

But in reality, what they were missing was not something.

Brad

You know, it's not a journey.

Brad

You don't have to go here or there to get there. And you don't even have to cross the river.

Brad

Right.

Brad

It's just a realization that the seeker

Brad

is the one that's thought or the

Brad

knower is the one that is to be

Brad

realized.

Brad

I don't want to say known, because the knower can't be known.

Brad

Good.

Brad

Questions, thoughts.

Brad

We move on to this. Who am I? So now on page 33, 33, 34, this could. Ramana Maharshi

Brad

has got his dates there.

Brad

1879 to 1950. Quite a popular figure, you know, even in India today. Quite.

Brad

You know, you see quotes from him and he's quite a famous exponent of,

Brad

again, of advaita, and some great quotes

Brad

by him worth paying attention to.

Brad

So there he said, South Indian teacher Ramana Maharshi, who always brought inquiries back

Brad

to the fundamental issue question about life after death.

Brad

For example, Ramana might reply, why do you want to know what will happen to you when you die before you

Brad

know what you are right now,

Brad

first

Brad

find out who you are, what you are right now. And then questions about God were similarly treated. Why do you want to know about God before you know about yourself?

Brad

How can you know about God if

Brad

you don't know about yourself? So start with what's in front of you.

Brad

Right?

Brad

Start with yourself.

Brad

So again, coming back to that,

Brad

the self.

Brad

Questions, thoughts.

Brad

That's the problem with the way I've

Brad

started this course is I had so much lecture that now it's like, wait, this is a lecture course, not a discussion course. But we're going to correct that soon.

Brad

Good.

Brad

So there's a lot in here about method. Speaking of method, let's roll back to

Brad

the definition of theology that I gave you on the first day of class.

Brad

And then again in chapter one.

Brad

Anybody have that memorized or at least written down somewhere?

Brad

So what is Brad's stipulative definition?

Brad

Pretty safe bet that that's going to

Brad

be on the midterm.

Brad

Right. So what is Brad's stipulative definition of theology?

Student

Yeah, the philosophical investigation of first principles anchored in canon.

Brad

Yeah, great. Philosophical investigation of first principles.

Brad

So what are first principles. Anchored in a canon of text? So the anchored in the canon of text, obviously is the beta.

Brad

Right.

Brad

But what are those first principles?

Student

Yeah, like who am I?

Student

Why am I here?

Brad

So it's what the title of this section is, right? Who am I? So who am I? You know, where Am I. I just think of, where am I? Right. What is this world around me?

Brad

What's the nature of world around me?

Brad

And why?

Brad

Right.

Brad

Why am I here? Why are any of us here? But particularly, why am I here? Right.

Brad

I mean, you kind of got to

Brad

answer both of those.

Brad

But yeah. So those are the first principles. So self, or as I said, in God's self, in society, right? I, not I.

Brad

And then the holy other, something that's,

Brad

you know, something that transcends this world. So in the imminent world, there's me

Brad

and then there's y'.

Student

All.

Brad

You're not me, right? And then, you know, but beyond I

Brad

and you, some holy other.

Brad

Yeah. So here the question is, who am I? Although, as we'll see, maybe consistently, you can't really answer any of these questions

Brad

without answering all of them, right?

Brad

You can't really say who. Who you are unless who you are somehow relates to the people around you, right?

Brad

How you fit into the world. So that also kind of answers this question.

Brad

And maybe even.

Brad

You certainly can't know who you are if you don't know why you're here. And you can't know why you're here if you don't know who you are or. Right. Or how you fit into the world.

Brad

So part of the point is that

Brad

you really have to answer or tackle

Brad

all three of these at the same time.

Brad

I want to draw your attention here. Page 34. So let's try and write this idea of naming. If I were to say, I mean, I. So let's just talk about me for a minute. So people call me different names.

Brad

Some of you probably aren't even sure what you're gonna call me yet, right? But my name's Brad, and a lot of people call me Brad. That's my name, right?

Brad

For others, there's a couple of folks,

Brad

three that call me that. So that's a different kind of relationship.

Brad

Still me, right?

Brad

Still the same person, but it indicates

Brad

a different aspect of relationship, right?

Brad

So when I'm asking the question, who am I?

Brad

Well, I'm Brad, and people call me Brad, right? That's one kind of relationship. And that helps me understand who I am and how I relate to the world. But dad is also who I am. But it's my most important identity by far.

Brad

But that's an important identity for a

Brad

small group of people, right?

Brad

And indicates a particular way of relating to others.

Brad

And then there's my dad, who calls me son. So even a smaller group of people who refer to me as son, but that's also an important relationship.

Brad

Right.

Brad

So who am I is inseparable from

Brad

my relationship to my parents, my relationship to my kids, and my relationship to all of the people that call me Brad.

Brad

Right. Students and teachers and friends and neighbors, that sort of stuff.

Brad

Yeah. Then there's.

Brad

There's also a very small group of

Brad

people, meaning two people that generally refer

Brad

to me as lbj. Lbj.

Brad

That's what my sisters call me.

Brad

My sisters, I mean they don't refer, they don't address me as lbj.

Brad

Well, sometimes they do, but usually they just refer to me as LBJ when they're talking to each other.

Brad

So my sisters, yeah, lbj. My sisters are older than me and

Brad

yeah, so they refer to me as

Brad

lbj, which stands for little Baby Jesus, which might sound like a nice thing.

Brad

They don't mean it in a nice way.

Brad

Right.

Brad

I mean, like, oh yeah, little baby Jesus again.

1:00:02

Lecture: Advaita Vedanta and Mutually Constitutive Correlates

Brad

So small group of people that refer to me as that. And there's another one I was thinking of, but oh, my mom.

Brad

My mom calls me Booper.

Brad

So the point being that who I am is a mix of all these different identities.

Brad

And so who I am may change from one moment to the next based on context, based on where I am and my web of relationships.

Brad

Right.

Brad

So Rambha says it like this.

Brad

The importance of human relationships is reflected in the ways in which these individual inform our self definitions. I may describe myself as a husband, son, brother, uncle, nephew, disciple or friend

Brad

depending on the particular context.

Brad

All these tell me about.

Brad

All these tell about me in relation

Brad

to someone else and explain the intricate

Brad

web of relations in which I'm involved and the many human roles that I play.

Brad

This is actually kind of an important

Brad

phrase, roles that I play.

Brad

We will be talking quite a bit

Brad

about play, the nature of play and

Brad

the various meanings of that word as

Brad

the semester goes on. But so I'm just kind of signaling,

Brad

drawing your attention to that word.

Brad

We'll come back to it later in the semester.

Brad

Cool.

Brad

So the point, I mean there's multiple points here, but one point is that

Brad

my identity is inseparable from my relationships.

Brad

Right.

Brad

So I like that phrase, sort of web of relationships. So you know, we're all sort of these different webs of relationships.

Brad

And then he points to a particular method. A method of this method comes from

Brad

Shankara also, but the method of distinguishing

Brad

between knower and known. And maybe, maybe you'll notice that really

Brad

the rest of the chapter is about that, right.

Brad

About the relationship between knower and known.

Brad

So hopefully we've got A sense from this example that names, right?

Brad

Words are kind of kinds of names. Names.

Brad

Words signal not just entities like the thing itself, but also our relationship to that thing. Right? So words indicate some sort of relationship.

Brad

They're relative to context.

Student

Right.

Brad

And then what he's trying to point out is that these names or these words and particular, particular knower and known also are relative terms. They're.

Brad

You can't have one without the other.

Brad

Right.

Brad

You can't have a knower unless they know something.

Brad

Right.

Brad

And something can't be known unless there's a knower.

Brad

Right?

Brad

So let's say father and son are opposite terms. Yeah, but as I just showed, I

Brad

can be a father and a son

Brad

at the same time, but not in

Brad

relation to the same people.

Brad

Right?

Brad

So the names dad and son refer

Brad

to me, but me in differing kinds of relationships. Right.

Brad

Likewise, the words knower and known refer to one another.

Brad

You can't have one without the other.

Brad

Right.

Brad

These. Philosophically we refer to these as mutually

Brad

constitutive,

Brad

or sometimes I call them mutually

Brad

constitutive correlates,

Brad

although I think the last

Brad

word is samhita superfluous.

Brad

They're correlates, meaning they relate to one another.

Brad

Right.

Brad

They're correlative to one another and they're mutually constitutive.

Brad

Constitutive means what makes something what it is. Right. So what constitutes being a knower?

Brad

Well, what constitutes being a knower is knowing something. Right? You can't know nothing.

Brad

If you know nothing, then you're not a knower.

Brad

Right?

Brad

So knowing being a knower means that

Brad

there's something that is known and. And that thing that is known can't be the knower because that's what it means to be known.

Brad

Right. So

Brad

this can get super confusing, but.

Brad

So these can also be referred to as subject and object.

Brad

Right.

Brad

But keep in mind the object here is not the thing itself, but the object is the phenomenon.

Brad

Right.

Brad

So when I say I, or maybe let's jump over to perceiver and perceived same relationship, but maybe a little bit more hands on. So I can't be a perceiver unless I perceive something. Whatever I perceive, that's the perceived. Yeah, but it can't be perceived unless there's a perceiver.

Brad

Right?

Brad

So they're mutually constitutive. You can't have one without the other.

Brad

They define one another. They're like

Brad

inside and outside.

Brad

Right.

Brad

You can't have an inside unless there's an outside.

Brad

Right.

Brad

You can't have an outside unless there's an inside.

Brad

You can't have a left unless there's a right.

Brad

You can't have a male unless there's a female. You can't have a top without a bottom, right?

Brad

Shoot.

Brad

I don't have a coin, but let's

Brad

say I had a coin, right? You know what a coin looks like, right? So a coin, you've got, you know,

Brad

heads and tails, right? Or just more simply top and bottom.

Brad

And I could. So top and bottom are not the same thing, Right?

Brad

They're actually opposites.

Brad

But you can't have a coin without

Brad

both the top and the bottom. Right. If I were to somehow cut it in half, right?

Brad

Then I still have a top and

Brad

I still have a bottom. In fact, now I have two tops and two bottoms, right?

Brad

So no matter how many times I

Brad

dvaita it, you know, like a magnet, you've always got a North Pole and a South Pole, Right? No matter how many times you dvaita it, you've always got North Pole and South Pole, Right.

Brad

You've always got a top and a bottom.

Brad

You getting the point of what I

Brad

mean by mutually constitutive correlates?

Brad

You can't have one without the other. This is critical key point.

Brad

Yeah.

Brad

Anybody confused about that or.

Brad

Good.

Brad

So then these two things, right? Can we agree that top is not

Brad

bottom and bottom is not top? They are two.

Brad

Right.

Brad

But as I just said, you can't

Brad

have one without the other.

Brad

Right?

Brad

Therefore they're not two.

Brad

Right.

Brad

Like it's one coin, one coin with

Brad

a top and a bottom. You can't have a coin without a top and a bottom. The top and the bottom are two, but they're both part of one coin

Brad

and therefore not two.

Brad

Yeah.

Brad

Why does that matter? What does the word adoita mean?

Brad

Should have started with that. Although I did give it the other day, didn't I?

Brad

What does edita mean?

Student

Yeah, it means like non dual.

Brad

Yeah.

Brad

Non dual, not two.

Brad

Yeah. So not literally a meaning.

Brad

Not.

Brad

And dweta meaning to. So usually translated as non dual. Yeah.

Brad

Which is because it's a, you know,

Brad

if we use it as an adjective.

Brad

So non dual meaning we could say

Brad

like a coin is non dual, right? Meaning it's always has a top and a bottom. Top and a bottom are not the same.

Brad

A friend.

Brad

You can't have a sibling unless there's more than one.

Brad

Right. So starting to see how these things are related. Right. So then there can't be a perceiver

Brad

unless there's something perceived.

Brad

So they're mutually constitutive correlates, same as the others. So they're not the same thing. So they're not one.

Brad

Right. But they're also not two.

Brad

Yeah.

Brad

And Rambachan wrote another book.

Brad

He wrote a few, but he wrote

Brad

another book

Brad

called

Brad

Hindu Theology. Of Liberation.

Brad

And the subtitle of that is not

Brad

two is not one

Brad

meaning. Right.

Brad

In order for me to be a dad, I have to have kids, right? And those kids are not me.

Brad

We're not the same one. But we're also not entirely two.

Brad

Right?

Brad

That's what it means to be related to one another.

Brad

Yeah.

Brad

So it's pointing to a particular relationship or relationship of one thing to the other. You got all of that? So then it shouldn't be a huge jump then to see the same relationship

Brad

between knower and known, Right? So it's a bit more abstract than

Brad

all of the other ones, but it's just more meta really.

Brad

Right.

Brad

So there can't be anything known unless

Brad

there is a knower.

Brad

Right?

Brad

And the knower is defined by what it knows, Right.

Brad

You can't be a knower unless you

Brad

know something and what is known.

Brad

It's just grammar, really.

Brad

It's grammar and logic, Right? So if this sounds like, hey, this

Brad

is just grammar, then like I told

Brad

you, the mmomskas, that's what their really

Brad

expertise is, is in grammar.

Brad

So grammar is

Brad

important here. Good Gosh, I'm almost out of time, aren't I?

Brad

Any other, any other questions about this

Brad

text or any questions about anything?

Brad

Questions, comments, thoughts?

Brad

Or if you want to try and put it in your own words and

Brad

say, do I get it?

Brad

The awareness section happen help. Yeah, feel free to questions.

Brad

So let me, I guess end on this then. So going back to the first principles, right? So if we, if we do

Brad

recategorize these so here in form of questions, but I could categorize them as I and then not I. So what makes you not I is

Brad

because you're not me, right?

Brad

So then I, as a sentient being

Brad

in the world, experience everything that's not me as not me, right?

Brad

So from that perspective, world, Right?

Brad

Another way of saying not I would be world.

Brad

So I experience the entire world as an object, right?

Brad

Something known with respect to me as the knower. Right? So I'm always a knower and what

Brad

I know is, is things that are not me.

Brad

Right?

Brad

And then so he also goes into

Brad

this section about the body, right? So I can know my body, but

Brad

I know my body as an object, right?

Brad

I know my hand.

Brad

I know that if someone were to

Brad

amputate my hand, then it wouldn't be me anymore.

Brad

Right.

Brad

So there's something about it that's. Yeah.

Brad

Kind of helping a little bit.

Brad

Yeah.

Brad

Make sense out of this. We're going to continue on a data very frequently this semester and we'll keep coming back to a lot of these ideas.

Brad

So, yeah, I think.

Brad

Yeah, I'm out of time.

Brad

Have a good weekend.

Brad

Hopefully have everything clear.

Brad

And I do have some quizzes, so if you wanted to make up a quiz I've got, you could do that right now.

Brad

And I have office hours today and office hours tomorrow online. I look forward to your first podcast. Have fun with them, you know, so have fun. That's good.