Opening and Meditation

Student 1: How do y'all?

Brad: Sorry I'm late. I was in my office reading the Gospel of John and lost track of time. Let's take a moment and just be present.

[Chime sounds]

Brad: Let's take a breath together. Go ahead and breathe in. And let it out.

Brad: Alrighty. So, I did bring Jenga today, thought we could. So we have several options. I brought Play-Doh, of course, as always, if anybody wants Play-Doh, go and break, take one and pass, or just pass. I feel so authoritative up here, like separated from everybody and everything.

Activity Choice: Jenga vs. Jeopardy

Brad: So yeah, so option one would be to play Jenga. It's a nice physical-ish exercise. The other option would be to play the Jeopardy game again, but I don't have any Gospel of John related questions at the moment. So it would be the questions that we've already done.

Brad: Any thoughts on those two options?

Brad: Group leaders, who we've got today? We've got Reagan and Sailor and Sophia, and Tushar, Liam. Wait, Liam's in the other class, right? Is Liam's in the other class?

Student 1: He's not here.

Brad: Got it. And Riley, yeah. And Sean, yep. So Sailor, Sean, Sophia, Riley, Reagan, Tushar, right? And Liam-ish.

Brad: Cool. How about you, how about those folks? Do you have a vote on Jenga or Jeopardy?

Student 1: Jenga.

Brad: Jenga? Jenga? Jenga? Jenga? Sounds like Jenga wins. All right, let's just play Jenga. You want to do just the, just the group leaders? We got a nice, we got a nice center.

Student 1: Wait, can I fill in for Liam?

Brad: Yeah, you can fill in for Liam. Yeah, that's right, because your team doesn't have a leader today, right? Yeah. Yeah. Absolutely.

Brad: Anybody want to help out?

Playing Jenga / Small Group Time

[3:38-5:37 - Small group discussion during Jenga setup/play]

Brad: So, also, having played this game with a large number of people from, you know, the various classes, seems like most folks play that if you touch a block, you have to move that block.

Student 2: That makes it so cool.

Brad: I know, it's way harder that way. Yeah?

Student 1: Why are you putting it on the side?

Brad: Well, let the group...

Student 1: Yeah, yeah, you got to flip it.

Student 2: You have to flip it?

[6:01-6:23 - Small group discussion during Jenga play]

Brad: Okay, so leaders, you can decide, is it touch it, you have to move it or no?

[6:32-6:43 - Small group discussion during Jenga play]

Brad: Yeah, I was missing my my beats for like a month.

Student 3: I've been missing these for a year.

Brad: Oh, really? Okay, good.

[6:49-7:06 - Small group discussion during Jenga play]

Brad: Okay, you got to like cheer your team on.

[7:08-9:23 - Small group discussion during Jenga play]

Brad: Come on fam, you got to cheer on your team. Let's go.

[9:25-10:25 - Small group discussion during Jenga play]

Brad: Hannah, how did the tournament go?

Student 4: Next one. We won one over here. Okay, nice. So we did break. Yeah. Two seconds. Nice. It was good.

Brad: Does that Does that mean you lost the finals?

Student 4: So we actually lost the first game. And we have the reigning champion. Okay.

[10:46-15:44 - Small group discussion during Jenga play]

Brad: Alright, cool and the gang. Well, that was fun. Let's turn to the fourth gospel now.

Discussion: Gospel of John Ch. 10 - Shepherd/Gate Analogy

Brad: So, yeah, I'm going to let I'm going to turn it over to y'all. So, why don't we start with the chapter we did chapter nine, so now we're starting chapter 10, yeah? Yep. So anybody want to get us started? Sean, kick it off.

Student 7: Just start off with the the shepherd and the gate analogy. I was confused about why Jesus called himself the gate and the shepherd. Yeah. Because I feel like you can't be both at once, especially when you're walking through the gate to get in to steal and be a thief. And then I also thought about it too that if he's the first shepherd, then what about the people or the sheep? I'm I'll use sheep and like people like interchangeably. Like the people before that were in the gate. Like are they saved? Are they not? Because they didn't go through the gate. They didn't go in through Jesus. So I thought about that question.

Brad: Okay, all right. Yeah? Yeah, Reagan.

Discussion: Belief Before/After Jesus & Absence of Signs

Student 8: Go off that, I think I was also just wondering if like everybody before Jesus was almost like doomed because they didn't have him as their shepherd because he talks about how like in chapter 10 verse 8, all who came before me are thieves and bandits. And then he talks about how he's like the savior that if like whoever believes in him will be saved, but it's like so is all of humanity before him like just like non-savable? So I thought that was kind of interesting.

Brad: Solid question. Yeah.

Student 7: Like same thing with that too, that was a better way to put it. And I also thought of like the people after Jesus, like when Jesus died, like how are you going to enter in that gate and be saved if there is no Jesus? So like on like both sides of that before and after, like there wasn't really a lot of mention of like what you could do after that. So it could just be the way the text was written where it was more talking in the present tense. Mhm. Not thinking of the past or the future, but like reading it now like so many years later, like that's something that definitely comes to mind.

Brad: Okay, yeah, good. Yeah, Riley.

Student 9: I feel like also like in a little bit of a different direction of thinking about this, but like with the signs and how Jesus is like showing people signs during this time period and like that's how they start to like grow faith in him. But like now, since like Jesus isn't here in the present moment, like in what way like do we grow faith in him? That's what I'm thinking about.

Brad: So his absence, his presence seems to be a source of faith, so then in that absence. Yeah, good question. Yeah, Tushar.

Discussion: Belief Despite Presence & Jesus's Humanity

Student 10: So like add on to that John 10 line 28. I give I give them eternal life and they will never perish. No one will snatch them out of my hand. What my father has given me is greater than all else and no one can snatch it out of the father's hand. The father and I are one. So like this like affirms Jesus's like authority, but like in a way they people are more willing to like believe in Jesus and his powers now than back then when he was present and like proving himself. So I just I like that where he had to put in the work for his legacy to like continue to like this day where like most people are practicing Catholic and Christian religions and believing in Jesus Christ. Well back then is like even though the proof was in front of you, no one like most people weren't believing in him.

Brad: Yeah, okay, good. So it's all of them see the the proof in front of their eyes and some believe and some don't. Yeah. Yeah, Alec.

Student 11: What's interesting to me is that like I wonder if Jesus was like looked more like a Hindu god, you know, like being blue or having the universe in his mouth or something like that if then we would have believed him. It's interesting that it's like we don't really trust other people. So I feel like Jesus being a human also really teaches us to love each other and to trust each other because, you know, it's easy to believe like this interesting like mythical creature is like a god, but a human, not so much.

Brad: Okay, yeah. So again, the signs seeing the signs is evidence, but but in their absence, is that? Yeah.

Student 11: Yeah, it's just hard for us to trust. Like even here it says because you though only a human are making yourself a god. Like they just keep reducing him to just being a human.

Brad: Mhm. Okay. Yep. Yeah, Sean.

Discussion: Jesus as Human/Demon/God & Relatability

Student 7: With that too and um 10:21 it says, can a demon open the eyes of the blind? So it's like Jesus is compared and it's either he's a human or he's a demon. Like there's no like I mean if you I mean some people did believe that he was from God but like I just think it was interesting that he could either be a demon or he could just be a human telling lies and that's how the non-believers comparing him to. But I think saying that like can a demon open the eyes of the blind? Like that's like the idea of that is interesting because like a demon like would deceive and a demon would be able to in like theory like in that context like do that and then say like it was from God and then do the deceiving thing.

Brad: Yeah, good. Yeah, Tushar.

Student 10: So like add on to the human aspect of Jesus like John 11 line 34. He said, where have you laid him? They said to him, Lord, come and see. Jesus began to weep. It just I I don't know, I like the aspect of part of Jesus being human. It makes us feel one of him rather than one of his disciples. Like we are part of him, we're all human. And then the fact that he weep like the humanity in him is like beautiful because we all weep. We all have those things. And then I also like wrote down like how it makes him feel more relatable and trustworthy because he has emotions. It's not like he's a God just ruling based on what he thinks is right, but he feels things, he feels things for himself, for others, for his mom. So it's like he has emotions so we can like trust that.

Brad: Mhm. Yeah, good. Reagan?

Discussion: Contradictions & Nature of Belief

Student 8: Yeah, I agree with that. I think I was a little bit confused throughout the whole passage that we read about like what he claimed his role was because he did talk about being human and how him being human was him setting an example for his disciples to continue to love each other the way he had loved them as a human. And then he also talked about how he was like the judger and like through the father, he was here to like like judge humanity. I think he talked about that in 12 or 13. And then in 12, um verse like 47, he he says like, for I came not to judge the world, but to save the world. And so I feel like there's not I don't know if it's like contradictory, but there's just a lot of different ways that he's like talking about his role and like what he came here to do and I just think I got kind of lost through that.

Brad: So again, it seems like there's there's just like these little pieces of contradiction in in John that that can really kind of throw us off like I think I have it and then this verse seems to like undermine that or something. Yeah, Sean.

Student 7: With these questions too, like I was also surprised by like in the reading that it doesn't talk about how you do the believing either. It doesn't like there's not like really like don't it doesn't say like don't sin or don't do this, don't do that. It's just having the belief in itself. And I thought just saying that was just a little odd, I think. Especially when like like taking out the mystery of John too and how it's such a complex like text and like how it was written like in very good Greek, like it wasn't formally saying anything else like that. It was just talking about you have to believe and that's just how you do it.

Brad: Yeah, yeah, I know, hear that for sure. Yeah, Rick.

Discussion: Comparison to Bhagavad Gita & Need for Structure

Student 15: Going back to the idea of seeing is believing, I feel like in the Bhagavad Gita, Krishna kind of does the same thing where like it's a spoken word that he is saying and then it's passed down from generation to generation as tradition, but then if it gets messed up at all, he comes back and he kind of like resets it. So like it still is like from that original source, it has to be from him. So like again, it's almost like a seeing is believing, it's just like a hearing is believing, but still.

Brad: But then it kind of gets lost through this telephone game, right? Over time, the message keeps getting passed down and and lost. Yeah, I think that, yep. Tushar.

Student 10: So go back to your point of like why all of this then if the goal is just to be like good humans to others, is that people need structure, people need something else to like adhere like believe in. And I could be completely wrong, it's personal, but I feel like this great religion has like so many aspects of like schools, politics, and just like the way things are run in a sense where it guides humans in their actions. So like I feel like just saying just be nice to others isn't good enough. You need like a structure, a system, things to do in order to feel like there's an end and that end is like eternal life or whatever you believe in so.

Brad: Okay, yeah. I hear. Yep. Jackie.

Student 13: I totally get Tushar's point and I think it's really interesting and I do think that as a human you want something to believe in, like something that makes your mind at ease, something that makes you more comfortable. And I think because John at this whole community where he was baptizing people that were fully removed away from Jesus, like didn't see these acts in person. And as Rick was saying that you just hear you just hear the word and you go with it. And I do think that clearly it's effective. I mean, that's what we do now. We didn't see any of these. We just hear the word and we go with it. But I think the people also have to want it. Like a person wants has to be able to not just be open-minded to being like, oh well, obviously he made the blind man see again. Like but you also have to want that like body guiding you.

Brad: Mhm. Mhm. Yeah, and there's a certain tranquility or comfort in sort of being told, do this, don't do that, right? If I ask you, do you want green or yellow? then it's like a little bit of anxiety, like I have to make a choice. But if it's like, here's green, it's like, okay, you know, like no. If there's a path, people If there's a path, just follow it here, just do this. Yeah. Yeah, Matthew.

Discussion: Blind Faith vs. Questioning Faith

Student 16: Yeah, kind of going back to that idea about the blind faith. Like I think some of this like might be confusing and if you just like don't question it at all, you could almost classify that as like blind faith because I think when you're asking these questions about, oh, what does this mean? And then you like search for the answer within yourself, that kind of almost could build your faith in a way versus if you just be like, oh everything I read, I'm going to like think it's 100% true and not ask any questions about it. I think that could lead you to faithful or blind blind faith.

Brad: So, maybe we could say theology is like faith that's always seeking understanding but never quite grasping the understanding, right? It's like climbing this It's the search that matters. It's the quest that that is faithful. Yeah. Buy that? I feel like I've heard that somewhere before. Yeah, Jack.

Discussion: Greek Orthodox Connection & Community

Student 11: With this understanding thing, it makes me think of my own religion. I'm Greek Orthodox and when I go to church services like for Easter or whatever, the entire service is in Greek. And I don't speak Greek. But you know, just being there and you really do feel that sense of community and that love and I don't understand the words that are being said, but there's something to that too. There's definitely like a feeling of connectedness and know you don't have to understand like every word, but there's definitely power in that love and that community.

Brad: Great. Good. There is, by the way, like a direct historical and deep, deep theological connection between Greek Orthodox Church and this particular gospel. Even more than some of the other ones. So, yeah, which is something we could explore in different context.

Student 11: For Greek Orthodox, there's it's definitely like darker than I'd say like Catholicism in that there's a lot of focus on like sinning and repenting. There seems to be some of that going on in here too like that you have to follow and sinning and Mhm. I see that kind of parallel.

Brad: Yeah. Good. Others? We're running out of time.

Highlight: The Beloved Disciple (John 13:23)

Brad: I want to draw attention to one thing that would be very, very, very easy to miss and overlook, especially if this is your first time reading the gospel. So chapter 13 verse 23. So, we have here, this is from the right, this is from the the Passover, like the this is kind of the last supper, right? But the Passover meal. And one of his disciples, the one whom Jesus loved. So, I brought this up when I was introducing the text, right? A couple weeks ago about the beloved disciple, the disciple whom Jesus loved, who's never identified or named, but this is the first reference that we've encountered in the text to the the disciple whom Jesus loved. We'll encounter this disciple a couple of more times as the text goes on. But I just wanted to draw attention to it more more for future for future classes when we're when we'll encounter it again. Only a few minutes left, but I want to make sure anybody else has a chance to chime in if they haven't. Don't necessarily have to have anything super profound to say. Yeah, Colin.

Discussion: Intentions vs. Actions & Peter's Denial

Student 17: I think the point in the chapter 10 verse 13, the hired hand runs away because the hired hand is not prepared for the sheep is really important with what Tushar was saying earlier about how like you have all these other values imposed within religion like monetary value and power and fame. And I think that it's putting the point out that you need to keep it like simple, like you need to do it for the want to do it, not because you're expecting anything out of it.

Brad: So, which could raise the question of so since there's all this emphasis on belief more than action and and in a little bit there on love too, that maybe that's the point that really it's about sort of forming your intentions and forming your desires. It's not telling you do this, don't do that, but instead, if you become the kind of person that believes this way, then you'll become the kind of person that loves and the kind of person that makes decisions in those sort of ways. Word? Yeah, I think something else that kind of relates to that is the last line of 13 when it says, will you lay down your life for me? Very truly I tell you before the cock crows, you will have denied me three times. So I feel like that relates to like belief and like how much does our faith mean if like we don't actually back it up by actions.

Brad: Mhm. Yeah. Word.

Podcast Assignment Instructions

Brad: Oh, so I should say thing about the your next podcast. So your next podcast is due, you know, preferably before the next class. And you've been doing great work. So unless I have specifically, you know, spoken to your team, then just keep going with what you've been doing. Nice work. But hold on, stay with me. Just to be super clear, so we've got group leaders A, B, C and D, right? So this is a this is a important rule. I want to make sure that if you were a group A leader that was the first two chapters of the Bhagavad Gita, right? So if you're a group A leader, then for your podcast, I want you to do something from the Gospel of John, right? Do one of the passages from the Gospel of John. Don't try to cover the entire thing, right? Don't try to cover the entire passages from any of these texts. There's way too much to to do that. I don't and it would be super watered down. I'd rather you pick a small passage, a small group of verses or even a single verse or something from the Gita or a couple passage from the Gospel of John. And you know, I'd love for you to make connections to the other past other parts of the gospel and that sort of thing. But kind of keep one little passage at the center, right? And kind of say, I really want to focus on this. Tell me why you're focusing on that. And you know, so is that clear? So if you did, if you were a group leader today, then you should in your podcast do something from the Bhagavad Gita. And if you were a group leader on Tuesday, you should do something from the Gospel of John. So switching back and forth. Yeah, Jackie.

Student 13: Can you compare the two? Like if you're supposed to prepare the Gita, can you compare it to John?

Brad: I think I think as long as you're as long as you're giving the text reading the text on their own, I think sometimes those comparisons become unavoidable and if it feels like I I can't not say it, then say it.

Closing Remarks

[Outro music begins]

Brad: Also, welcome to our guest Liam, visiting Boston College.